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Old 08-01-2005, 01:29   #1
aricbcool
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Report: King Fahd of Saudi Arabia Has Died
Just saw this. Looks like it's from "anonymous officials", so take it FWIW...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,164348,00.html

Report: King Fahd of Saudi Arabia Has Died
Monday, August 01, 2005

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia — Saudi Arabia's ruler, King Fahd, died early Monday in Riyadh, three officials told The Associated Press.

"The king died early this morning," said an official at the King Faisal Specialized Hospital in the Saudi capital who declined to be identified because the death of Fahd, who was believed to be 82, had not been officially announced.
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Old 08-01-2005, 06:51   #2
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Going to get more interesting in the Middle-East...
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Old 08-01-2005, 08:19   #3
The Reaper
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Not until his brother goes as well.

Fahd had not been involved in running the country for a long time.

Really interesting that Bandar just announced his job change a week ago or so. Must have known something.

TR
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De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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Old 08-01-2005, 13:04   #4
Airbornelawyer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reaper
Not until his brother goes as well.
Which one? He is survived by somewhere between 21 and 24 brothers, including 6 full brothers (the surviving members of the "Sudairi Seven"). I assume you mean Crown Prince Abdullah, the new king.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reaper
Fahd had not been involved in running the country for a long time.
Not as involved as when he was healthier, but his sons have been acting to ensure that Abdullah didn't consolidate all power during Fahd's infirmity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reaper
Really interesting that Bandar just announced his job change a week ago or so. Must have known something.
Either he did or someone else did. Bandar's father, Prince Sultan bin Abd al-Aziz, has already been named as crown prince, as was expected. Prince Sultan should also become First Deputy Prime Minister, as Abdullah moves up to Prime Minister.

Two things to look for:

1. Whether Sultan keeps his portfolio as Minister of Defence. When Abdullah became Crown Prince and First Deputy Prime Minister, he kept command of the National Guard, maintaining his independent power base. If Sultan relinquishes control of the armed forces, it means that despite being Crown Prince, he loses real power. But if his younger full-brother Prince Abd al-Rahman, the current Deputy Minister of Defense, moves up, or if his son Field Marshal Prince Khalid bin Sultan comes out of retirement, it may mean his power is intact.

However, if someone like Prince Badr moves over, then there is a major power shift taking place. Badr is currently Deputy Commander of the National Guard and is close to Abdullah. Also, he was one of the reformist "Free Princes" sent into exile in the 1960s.

2. Who becomes Second Deputy Prime Minister. The line of succession runs from King and PM to Crown Prince/1st Deputy PM to 2nd Deputy PM. Prince Nayef is the most likely candidate, even though he has several living older brothers. He is the Interior Minister, giving him control of the police, so with Abdullah's National Guard and Sultan's armed forces, these three princes control the instruments of power. But Nayef, and another candidate, Riyadh governor Prince Salman, are members of the Sudairi Seven, so Abdullah might look elsewhere to break their hold.

Next in age after Prince Sultan are Prince Mit'ib, the Minister of Municipalities (not an especially powerful position), the aforementioned Prince Abd al-Rahman, and Prince Talal. Prince Talal is the dark horse. He has not held a major government position since the early 1960s and is currently Saudi representative to UNESCO. He was the leader of the Free Princes. Abdullah was close to the Free Princes and protected them from further retaliation by other princes.
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Old 08-01-2005, 13:08   #5
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I'd like the Saudi royal family to sign up for a new reality TV show.
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Old 08-01-2005, 13:22   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airbornelawyer
Which one? He is survived by somewhere between 21 and 24 brothers, including 6 full brothers (the surviving members of the "Sudairi Seven"). I assume you mean Crown Prince Abdullah, the new king.
Correct. Actually, Abdullah is a half-brother of Fahd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Airbornelawyer
Not as involved as when he was healthier, but his sons have been acting to ensure that Abdullah didn't consolidate all power during Fahd's infirmity.
Hmm, I had heard that since his stroke, he had deteriorated to the point where he did not even recognize family members, had no short-term memory and was basically only wheeled out for the cameras on state occasions.

I agree with your assessment otherwise. Bandar is probably our best hope for the long-term relationship, but the shuffling will take place and the older generation will have to pass on first.

RL, I like the way you think. That show would make the Osbornes look like the Osmonds.

TR
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910

De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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Old 08-01-2005, 14:15   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reaper
Hmm, I had heard that since his stroke, he had deteriorated to the point where he did not even recognize family members, had no short-term memory and was basically only wheeled out for the cameras on state occasions.
My inartfully made point was that his clique made sure that Crown Prince Abdullah didn't completely shift power in his direction. Fahd's sons have been moved into various influential positions. Other Sudairis also sought to make sure that Fahd's demise wouldn't mean theirs as well.
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Old 08-04-2005, 13:23   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airbornelawyer
He is survived by somewhere between 21 and 24 brothers, including 6 full brothers (the surviving members of the "Sudairi Seven").
One good thing when you die is that everyone still alive comes out to offer condolences.

An August 2 story from the Saudi Press Agency notes that "Worshippers were led by the Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques King Abdullah bin Abdulaziz; Prince Bandar bin Abdulaziz; Prince Misha'al bin Abdulaziz; Crown Prince Sultan bin Abdulaziz, the Deputy Premier, Defense and Aviation Minister and Inspector General, as well as princes, senior officials and citizens."

For us amateur Kremlinologists: King Abdullah (born 1923) is apparently now the oldest living son of King Abd al-Aziz. His half brother Prince Bandar, also born in 1923, is next. Prince Misha'al was born in 1925, and Crown Prince Sultan in 1927.

Bandar is one of the 3 princes I wasn't sure were still alive. Of the other two, Nasir was born in 1920 and Musa'id in 1923. They haven't been mentioned in the Saudi media for years, and unless they are so infirm they couldn't be wheeled out for the memorial, my guess is they are dead too.

Meaning there are 22 living sons of King Abd al-Aziz (at least for now):

1. Abdullah bin Abd al-Aziz Al Sa'ud (1921-) - King & Prime Minister
2. Bandar bin Abd al-Aziz Al Sa'ud (1923-) - no gov't position
3. Misha'al bin Abd al-Aziz Al Sa'ud (1925-) - no gov't position
4. Sultan bin Abd al-Aziz Al Sa'ud (1927-) - Crown Prince, 1st Deputy PM, Defense Minister
5. Mit'ib bin Abd al-Aziz Al Sa'ud (1928-) - Minister of Municipalities
6. Abd al-Rahman bin Abd al-Aziz (1931-) - Deputy Minister of Defense
7. Talal bin Abd al-Aziz Al Sa'ud (1931-) - Special Envoy to UNESCO
8. Turki bin Abd al-Aziz Al Sa'ud (1933-) - business interests
9. Badr bin Abd al-Aziz Al Sa'ud (1933-) - Deputy Commander of SANG
10. Nawwaf bin Abd al-Aziz Al Sa'ud (1933-) - Chief of General Intelligence, 2001-05
11. Nayif bin Abd al-Aziz Al Sa'ud (1934-) - Interior Minister
12. Fawwaz bin Abd al-Aziz Al Sa'ud (1934-) - no gov't position
13. Salman bin Abd al-Aziz Al Sa'ud (1936-) - Governor of Riyadh
14. Abd al-Illah bin Abd al-Aziz Al Sa'ud (1938-) - Governor of Al Jawf until 2003
15. Abd al-Majid bin Abd al-Aziz Al Sa'ud (1940-) - Governor of Mecca
16. Sattam bin Abd al-Aziz Al Sa'ud (1940-) - Deputy Governor of Riyadh
17. Ahmad bin Abd al-Aziz Al Sa'ud (1940-) - Deputy Minister of the Interior
18. Mamduh bin Abd al-Aziz Al Sa'ud (1941-) - Director, Saudi Center for Strategic Studies until 2004
19. Hidhlul bin Abd al-Aziz Al Sa'ud (1941-) - ?
20. Mashhur bin Abd al-Aziz Al Sa'ud (1942-) - ?
21. Muqrin bin Abd al-Aziz Al Sa'ud (1945-) - Governor of Al Madinah
22. Hamud bin Abd al-Aziz Al Sa'ud (1947-) - ?

Prince Bandar bin Sultan, the outgoing Ambassador to the United States, has shown up prominently in a number of recent news reports, accompanying the new King and/or Bandar's father the Crown Prince in meeting various foreign dignitaries paying their respects. So Bandar's leaving Washington was apparently not a demotion or loss of status.
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