03-03-2004, 17:48
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#91
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Guerrilla Chief
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NC
Posts: 995
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The groin shot was intentional, I had to get out of there somehow and I made sure to only pop one of them... 
At least I'm honest about some of my short comings... Now, if I could only learn how to shut up...
Solid
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Solid is offline
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03-03-2004, 18:08
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#92
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JAWBREAKER
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Gulf coast
Posts: 1,906
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Damn you Solid... You took all the sport out of it.
Isn't cowardice punishible by death in the AprofSoldier code of conduct NDD? We need a formal inquiry into Solid's ND also. It seems that it was intentional... but its still a negligent discharge.
That makes TWO big NO-NO's on this site in one day, SIR.
Crap, NOW it would be like "pickin on the fat kid" or "hitting a girl"!
__________________
"If you live here you better speak the language. This is supposed to be a melting pot not a frigging stew" - Jack Moroney
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Sacamuelas is offline
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03-03-2004, 18:35
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#93
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,822
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Quote:
Originally posted by Solid
I think that it is important for students to experience rallies first-hand through attendance, but NOT be forced into participating in the rally proper. While attending a rally- being physically present among the body of protesters- could be seen as implicit support of the rally, I believe that participating takes more- such as being a sign holder, taking part in defamatory cheers, etcetera. While schools should attempt to expose students to rallys by allowing them to attend (or going on class trips), it would be wrong to make them participate in the rally. This is similar to the differentiation Mr. Harsey made- schools should not teach them WHAT to think (participation in rally) but instead HOW to think (attendance, observation, examination).
So, why expose students to rallys? Rallies are a potent and direct form of representation in an enlightened democracy. As in the Vietnam War, rallies can effect policy with minimal interference from intermediary bureaucracy, which often has the effect of perverting or co-opting the message. The unalienable right of Free Speech is upheld through protest and rally, and these two devices could be seen as mechanisms to prevent tyranny or governmental behaviour which is felt to be unrepresentative of popular opinion. Therefore, excluding individual messages, rallies are a good thing.
However, in terms of implementing this idea, the waters muddy somewhat. Certain rallies- Anti-WTO, for example- are violent and often extremely poor examples of what rallies should be. I will not advocate placing students in harm's way, or, worse, exposing them to forms of protest which are illegal or misguided (not in their intent or message, but in their techniques). As such, I feel that students should be given, quite literally, an 'introduction' to protest, a field trip of some kind. Teachers should make an effort to present both sides of the coin when dealing with controversial matters, such as the military, thereby minimalising bias. If the matter is handled appropriately, the valuable skill of protest will become part of education.
Of course, some people think students shouldn't have a voice at all...
That's my $.02, make change if you wish
Solid
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Would student attendance at a Klan rally with a cross burning be beneficial to them?
How about a lynching?
A hate rally against white people or Jews?
You need to think harder before you post.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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03-03-2004, 18:36
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#94
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Guerrilla Chief
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NC
Posts: 995
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How about picking on the fat girl??
It would only be cowardice if someone expected me to defend my position, which doesn't include the OPFOR... right?
What opinions can teenagers voice, in your opinion?
Reaper:
For the sake of brevity I did not fully answer those questions in my original post, but now see that I should have been more clear. Students should NOT be taken to any kind of rallies which are controversial in nature or likely to degrade into mob violence. Although I agree that 'controversial' is a subjective term, there are protests which are nominally non-threatening and non-controversial to the majority of society.
Solid
Last edited by Solid; 03-03-2004 at 18:42.
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Solid is offline
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03-03-2004, 18:37
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#95
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Guest
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Quote:
Originally posted by CRad
His reasons are teachers are trained to teach. You don't doctor the kids so you don't teach the kids.
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Your husband is a better trained teacher than many of the teachers in public schools.
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03-03-2004, 18:42
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#96
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,822
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Quote:
Originally posted by Solid
How about picking on the fat girl??
What opinions can teenagers voice, in your opinion?
Reaper:
For the sake of brevity I did not answer those questions in my original post, but now see that I should have. Clearly, students should NOT be taken to any kind of rallies which are controversial in nature or likely to degrade into mob violence.
Solid
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You don't see anti-war rallies as controversial?
Teenagers, like adults, should restrict themselves to commentary on subjects they are knowledgable in and educated on. Possession of an ignorant opinion is not justification to voice it, unless it is an athletic event or alcohol is involved, and you are prepared to fight (physically) to defend it.
Otherwise, it is just background noise.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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03-03-2004, 18:42
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#97
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Guest
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Quote:
Originally posted by Solid
Rallies are a potent and direct form of representation in an enlightened democracy.
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Why do you think we vote for Representatives and Senators in Congress?
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03-03-2004, 18:44
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#98
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Consigliere
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland (at last)
Posts: 8,841
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Quote:
Originally posted by Solid
Reaper:
For the sake of brevity I did not fully answer those questions in my original post, but now see that I should have been more clear. Students should NOT be taken to any kind of rallies which are controversial in nature or likely to degrade into mob violence. Although I agree that 'controversial' is a subjective term, there are protests which are nominally non-threatening and non-controversial to the majority of society.
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You want them to go to the rally for keeping the library open until 2130 instead of 2100? I'm sure there are a bunch like that to choose from. And very educational. 
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Roguish Lawyer is offline
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03-03-2004, 18:47
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#99
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Guerrilla Chief
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NC
Posts: 995
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Reaper, I do see anti-war rallies as controversial, and also prone (in historic cases) to degrade into violence. I tried to use anti-war rallies as an example of the potent and important ability of protest, not as an example of a good field trip.
Greenhat, the system of representation in most cases is adequate to serve public opinion. However, in some cases (as it would be if a tyrant was in power), the governmental bureaucracy through which representation must pass would become 'part of the enemy', therefore leading to methods of representation external to governmental mechanisms, such as rallies.
RL, here in London a congestion charge was levelled on 'the square mile'. There were minor, non-violent, and non-controversial rallies protesting its implementation. These kind of rallies are so non-controversial that they don't make the international news, so I couldn't find similar rallies in the US.
Solid
Last edited by Solid; 03-03-2004 at 18:49.
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Solid is offline
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03-03-2004, 18:50
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#100
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LA
Posts: 1,653
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Quote:
Originally posted by Roguish Lawyer
You want them to go to the rally for keeping the library open until 2130 instead of 2100? I'm sure there are a bunch like that to choose from. And very educational.
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I find that to be a very controversial topic. How dare you demand the librarian work another 30 minutes?
Quote:
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Clearly, students should NOT be taken to any kind of rallies which are controversial in nature or likely to degrade into mob violence.
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A rally that does not address a controversial subject is called a quilting bee in America.
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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03-03-2004, 18:53
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#101
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Consigliere
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland (at last)
Posts: 8,841
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Quote:
Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
I find that to be a very controversial topic. How dare you demand the librarian work another 30 minutes?
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LMAO!
Sincerely,
Capitalist lap dog
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Roguish Lawyer is offline
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03-03-2004, 18:55
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#102
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LA
Posts: 1,653
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And before all the females jump on me, quilting bees can get pretty heated as well.
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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03-03-2004, 19:19
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#103
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JAWBREAKER
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Gulf coast
Posts: 1,906
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Quote:
Originally posted by Solid
How about picking on the fat girl??
However, in some cases (as it would be if a tyrant was in power), the governmental bureaucracy through which representation must pass would become 'part of the enemy', therefore leading to methods of representation external to governmental mechanisms, such as rallies.
Solid
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I hate fat girls.. now you have done it! 
Solid.. there you go. I try to get you out of this thing by not using my "bullet" and you keep posting until the shooters decide to finish you off. Not very wise for a diversified two high school experienced renaissance man like yourself...
Now I finally understand you. You must think we have a tyrant in power. Please remember to take off your tin hat when you come to this website.
As to your second response here...
This is why I specifically asked you to detail your opinion earlier. I was trying to prevent this type of hypothetical BS from being used as an excuse. My fault, I guess I forgot to make sure you specified that we were talking about the USA as it exists today... not some made up fairy tale land scenario Dorothy.
From the looks of things since I lasted posted, now you will be lucky to get out of this with a groin shot. LOL Good luck
__________________
"If you live here you better speak the language. This is supposed to be a melting pot not a frigging stew" - Jack Moroney
Last edited by Sacamuelas; 03-03-2004 at 19:22.
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Sacamuelas is offline
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03-03-2004, 19:36
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#104
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Tampa
Posts: 2,530
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I should pay more attention
Yes...I am late...OK, VERY Late...but
This thread applies directly to us...since coming to Hawaii, we are homeschoolers.
Our daughter did exceptionally well in public school, getting stationed in Hawaii presented us a real problem...substandard education, our daughter's safety could not be gauranteed at school, private schools at 3-6K a semester for grades 3-5.
So, we chose to homeschool. After our first year, her standardized testing for 3rd grade showed her scoring between 5-6 grade level for all subjects except geography...where she was in the 4th grade level. We too were worried about her socialization skills suffering...so we enrolled her in extracurricular activities with kids her own age. Art camps, activity camps, karate etc... Additionally, we are members of the Hawaii Homeschool Association which sponsors twice monthly park days for all the kids to get together and play as well as other activities (plays, chorus practice / recitals, field trips etc). Sounds just about perfect huh???
Well, there is another side to homeschooling that we have been exposed to...and we see why it can get such a bad rep.
Our daughter has scheduled classes from 0800-1520 daily, a full school day. Most others HERE have class no more than 1-3 hours per day. MANY here practice "no school-home school"- the child "learns by experiencing life" and "asks questions when they are ready to learn more about something" 
We have converted a room in our home to her classroom, 4x7 foot chalkboard, desk, globe, education based posters etc...people think we are idiots..."You don't have to do all that!!! How could you possibly put in so much time teaching and make her sit through it?!?"
We found it very confusing how many families are advocates for the "responsibility of educating their own children" and then only put 1-3 hours a day into it.
By far this has been the best and most rewarding decision we have probably ever made. And our child has absolutely benefitted from it.
The responsibility is on the parents, what they want to provide their child with for the kids future, and the work and study habits that will carry them to being students in college and ultimately a productive portion of society.
Eagle
__________________
Primum non Nocere
"I have hung out in dangerous places a lot over the years, from combat zones to biker bars, and it is the weak, the unaware, or those looking for it, that usually find trouble.
Ain't no one getting out of this world alive. All you can do is try to have some choice in the way you go. Prepare yourself (and your affairs), and when your number is up, die on your feet fighting rather than on your knees. And make the SOBs pay dearly."
The Reaper-3 Sep 04
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Eagle5US is offline
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03-03-2004, 20:05
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#105
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JAWBREAKER
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Gulf coast
Posts: 1,906
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Great post Sir. Spoken from a postion based on positive experiences with both sides of the dilemna. You and Bill Harsey are becoming my new mentors. (still won't homeschool unless things change big time in my area  ). Your reasoning is exactly why my wife has quit her law practice to stay home with our infants for the first few years minimum. We want to sacrifice our short term luxury and goals to give them the best chance to reach their individual potential. Trust me, it was not a decision that we made for financial reasons! LOL
IMO, your post on parents responsibilty is a great summary for this thread. Glad you found us down here in the {General discussion} forum Doc.
__________________
"If you live here you better speak the language. This is supposed to be a melting pot not a frigging stew" - Jack Moroney
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Sacamuelas is offline
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