Let's talk shooting schools

rubberneck · 07-25-2004, 12:03

Recently I managed to get the not so great state of New Jersey to issue me a CCW. For those of you who don't know it is near impossible for a civilian to get a CCW, as a matter of fact I will be one of roughly 500 regular joes with the right to carry in this state. I guess I caught the right judge one just the right day.

Any how I came to realize rather belatedly that I don't have the training necessary for me to be effective carrying so I decided that some high quality concealed training is in order before I carry for the first time.

From what I have read, members of your community have opportunity to train from time to time with various private shooting schools. I was hoping that some of you have had the experience and could reccommend a good shooting school.

There are so many out there and it is hard to tell the good from the bad or those that might be a little over hyped. I am looking for a school who's instructors have real world experience, who's instructors actually know how to teach and school that stresses fundamentals and stays away from all the HSLD BS that a civilian doesn't need to know. I don't need a school with world class facilites with kill houses and 1000 yard ranges. Finally hopefully either the school or their instructors offer classes within 1 days drive of NJ.

I have been told to look at Blackwater, Frontsite, Gunsite, Thunder Ranch, Jeff Gonzolez, Mid-South and a couple of others but those reccomendations have come from your run of the mill gun shop Rambos.

**The Reaper** · 07-25-2004, 12:45

Mid-South. Closest and tunes toward what you want.

Gunsite.

Thunder Ranch.

TR

07-25-2004, 15:33

I have good friends that have done all three. I'd agree that Mid-south is probably tuned to what you are looking for.

rubberneck · 07-25-2004, 15:47

Thanks.

NousDefionsDoc · 07-25-2004, 17:06

What weapon and what do you do for a living?

rubberneck · 07-26-2004, 07:10

I own three handguns. A Browning Hi-Power, A sig P229 and a Springfield Loaded. I am not sure but I think I will carry the Sig most of the time and the Hi-Power every now and then. I run a company that represents industrial manufacturer's of building supplies. Not very exciting but its an honest living.

**Team Sergeant** · 07-26-2004, 08:19

Quote:

Originally posted by rubberneck
I own three handguns. A Browning Hi-Power, A sig P229 and a Springfield Loaded. I am not sure but I think I will carry the Sig most of the time and the Hi-Power every now and then.

Do yourself a favor. Stay with one CCW gun. Until you can load, unload, assemble, disassemble, function check etc etc etc the weapon in your sleep don’t keep changing pieces. Stick with one piece or a variant of the same gun. You’ll thank me if you ever have to use it.

I’ve said this somewhere on here already, but have you looked into some NRA pistol classes? Sometimes you’ll find someone like me holding an NRA Pistol Instructors certification doing the teaching.

Good luck on finding a school.

TS

NousDefionsDoc · 07-26-2004, 09:10

What the TS said about rotating pistols.

I would go to a "Pistol I" course from Mid-south to start off with. Close and most of the starting courses are pretty much the same, as long as they are from reputable people. See how you like it.

Sacamuelas · 07-26-2004, 09:55

It sounds like NDD is referring to the weekend pistol only course at MidSouth.
-expect 1500 rounds of pistol downrange in two days .

Other option is the five day practical course which includes pistol, carbine, and shotgun instruction.
http://www.weaponstraining.com/pages/courses.htm

This is not THAT far from me. Thanks for the recommendation TR, TS, and NDD.

rubberneck · 07-26-2004, 10:16

Quote:

Originally posted by Team Sergeant
Do yourself a favor. Stay with one CCW gun. Until you can load, unload, assemble, disassemble, function check etc etc etc the weapon in your sleep don’t keep changing pieces. Stick with one piece or a variant of the same gun. You’ll thank me if you ever have to use it.

I’ve said this somewhere on here already, but have you looked into some NRA pistol classes? Sometimes you’ll find someone like me holding an NRA Pistol Instructors certification doing the teaching.

Good luck on finding a school.

TS

Thanks for the advice about sticking with one gun. The problem is that I like the Hi-Power better than the P229 but the gun has had the magazine disconnect removed and has also had a trigger job. I was told by a couple LEO around here that if I ever use the gun in self defense the prosecutors will use this fact as evidence that I was "reckless". The 1911 is to big for me to carry without printing.

I have looked at the two NRA instructors in my area when I first decided to buy a handgun. The first guy went on and on about how I would be trained just like our Special Operations troops and would be proficient at CQB by the end of his week long course. The only problem with that is I don't need to be proficient at CQB and the guy has military or LE training.

The second instructor is a retired LEO with 18 years SWAT experience. I went with him but he tunred out to be next to useless. He read from the NRA handbook in a monotone voice and an air of disinterest. When we finally hit the range he disappeared for 20 minutes and then offered no feedback. When I asked him why I was low and left he said you are anticipating recoil. Never offered any tips how to over come it. After two hours I packed up and left.

Which now brings me to the point where I am at. I want guys with real world experience and who can relate to their students. I don't mind spending the cash I just want first rate training. I would hate like hell to spend gobs of cash only to be taught incorrectly and to have to spend months undoing the muscle memory.

From the great feedback here I will look closely at Mid-South and possibly at Thunder Ranch. Thanks for the advice.

APLP · 07-26-2004, 10:22

Quote:

Originally posted by rubberneck
I have been told to look at Blackwater, Frontsite, Gunsite, Thunder Ranch, Jeff Gonzolez, Mid-South and a couple of others but those reccomendations have come from your run of the mill gun shop Rambos. [/B]

IMHO, Mid-South would be first choice but slots for training are tight these days. Any of the above would also serve as good shooting schools. You might also want to give consideration of attending one of the LFI courses as they provide the best curriculum for educating citizens concerning legal and potential liabilities if you ever have to use lethal force against another.

Go to a gun school to learn how to shoot, go to the LFI school to learn how you stay out of jail or lawsuites if you ever do have to use your weapon in self defense.

NousDefionsDoc · 07-26-2004, 11:39

Quote:

Thanks for the advice about sticking with one gun. The problem is that I like the Hi-Power better than the P229 but the gun has had the magazine disconnect removed and has also had a trigger job. I was told by a couple LEO around here that if I ever use the gun in self defense the prosecutors will use this fact as evidence that I was "reckless".

Ok, first of all and defering to any lawyers that have worked SD cases - BS. Youy can very easily show proof that the trigger job was done to improve accuracy, which shows the opposite of reckless. Mag safety is a little different, but there is plenty of precedent on this as well.

But anyway, what can be done can be undone. Go have the mag safety re-installed and get a different trigger job. Trigger on a combat handgun shouldn't be too light anyway.

Sacamuelas · 07-26-2004, 11:44

About Midsouth...
Got an email from Jim Cowan of Mid-South Institute of Self-Defense Shooting, Inc. this morning. Concerning the scheduled classes availability:

Quote:

At the present time, we are completely booked through the end of 2004 and well into 2005. We do not have any 2-Day Weekend classes scheduled at this time. If there is a change in World Events, then our schedule will open up.
Thanks

I then asked him about the 3day pistol portion or the 5 day practical course openings for a single participant. The reply.

Quote:

Not at this time. We are working with the Military at this time and they do not let anyone else train with them.

Well, that about says it all about any individuals going to Midsouth. You are only going if your specific military unit is going.

**Team Sergeant** · 07-26-2004, 13:13

I guess its time to open another shooting school....

What you think Guy?

Guy · 07-26-2004, 13:22

Quote:

Originally posted by Team Sergeant
I guess its time to open another shooting school....

What you think Guy?

I live in a state that would have a fit...if we were to start a combat shooting course.

We are looking at moving in the future to someplace that has NO SNOW! I can't stand the cold.