Why go SF? - Page 2

magician · 10-11-2004, 23:41

this is actually a hard question.

in my case, I wanted to go SF out of the gate, but my recruiter lied to me and told me that SF was not available as an option to recruits off the street. At this time, it WAS an option. He told me that I needed to go to a Ranger Battalion first, and this I did, and I am glad that my life turned out this way.

after four years in Battalion, I extended to go to the Q-Course, and for assignment to 1SFGA. It was a real relief. I loved it so much that I reenlisted, after six years of duty, and three years of extensions to my original three year enlistment. Do not get me wrong: I loved the Ranger Battalion. But I was slowing down....and I was ready to take the next step in my professional development as a professional soldier. On an ODA, I had time and opportunity to take better care of myself physically, I was never in better physical condition than when I was on an ODA, and I had time and access to resources that enabled me to hone myself as a soldier.

the people....yes, the people are special. But for me, the opportunity to make real investments in my own precision as a soldier was the real attraction. In those days, SF were specialists in the arts of interdiction. I was all over that. I was also attracted to the regional orientation, and the opportunity to get into the meat and potatoes of foreign cultures, as I had always been a relatively cerebral individual. SF in those days was a place for some seriously smart motherfuckers, and I met guys who were true polyglots (George Bell, for example), who could have been "successful" anywhere, doing anything that they chose.

it is a brotherhood, a tribe, and in those days, there was no other place to learn at the feet of survivors of MACVSOG. For a professional soldier, there was no other place to be than in SF, at that time, in my opinion. SF was also a gateway to bigger and better things. Your reputation in SF is everything. If you are not known personally to someone, they know someone who knows you, and if you are a shitbird, word gets around. Likewise, if you are a professional, word gets around, and opportunities come your way.

bottom-line: for whatever reason, I found myself on the path of professional soldiering. If you choose this path, and elect to prepare yourself for combat as a soldier in the service of a country, there is no better place to do so. I would rather fight with a handful of sneaky petes in my hip pocket than as a member of a conventional unit, anyday. It reminds me of the old adage about firepower. Firepower is not carpet-bombing a target. Firepower is placing one single bullet in the brainpan of your nemesis. "One shot, one kill," refers to much more than sniping. It refers to an entire way of warfare, one that is much kinder and gentler on contested societies, far cheaper, far more efficient than the destruction and waste sowed by conventional military formations.

people with an "individual" bent can flourish in SF, where they would feel thwarted and confined by the strictures of the regular Army. For me, growing up in the Ranger Battalion provided me with a foundation of experience that I could not have received anywhere else. And it taught me respect for authority, which was something that I really needed to learn. SF for me was a "finishing school," and while I am now old, fat, and much slower than I used to be, I am still a conniving, dastardly son of a bitch, treacherous to my enemies, extremely deceptive, appearing to be just another old, fat guy walking the streets of a foreign capital. My primary weapon is my brain, and I can pick up the phone or jump on the internet and put into motion plots that would boggle your mind.

it is one thing to be able to pull a trigger. But when you find a guy who can do a clandestine block face survey, then do a target analysis and isolate the single missing screw that will bring an entire system down, and then "arrange" for that screw to mysteriously fall...then you have the ultimate force multiplier. When you take this same guy and teach him how to craft campaign plans incorporating the gamut of force options...then you have a lone guy who can go someplace very quietly, and leave havoc in his wake.

I love my SF brothers. While loyalty, reliability and trustworthiness are our watchwords, we have the mentality of bank robbers. Do we ever misuse our skills? I do not. Nor do I associate with others who do. We have had our "ten percenters." I get the feeling that there are fewer of them than ever before, and this is a good thing. But my brothers are worldwide, they are many of them embedded in careers doing "good works," in accord with our values and code of honor, and it is a delight to work with them, others might say "conspire" with them, in furthering our mutual goals.

SF is not for everybody. The pipeline is long and hard. It culls out those who do not belong.

But it also forms you, and you learn dexterity as you learn to survive.

The first question you have to ask yourself is, do you have the balls to try?

Max_Tab · 10-12-2004, 06:58

Like a bunch of people on here, I joined because it is what I always wanted to do, hell it's the only thing I ever wanted to do. But as I've been in longer and longer, my motivation has changed a little. It's still the only thing I've ever wanted to do, but now it is more of a calling than a search for adventure. I truly believe in our motto, and all that, that entails.
My wife asked me recently after two of my friends were killed why I have to do this job, and I told her "if not me than who". I know that sounds silly and corny, but it is something that I am proud of, and hope some day when my kids grow up they will be proud also.

NousDefionsDoc · 10-12-2004, 07:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greenhat

Why doin't you learn something and then offer to give the training?

Now there's a novel concept! And how is there "not enough PT"? Do it on your own.

Desert Fox · 10-12-2004, 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greenhat

Why don't you learn something and then offer to give the training?

I can't because:
1-I'm not "qualified" on it. If not qualified on something, "I can't do it", and for sure not teach it! Self education or knowlegde doesnt count as a qualification.
2-I'm not an officer, but a junior NCM. That means I have no power on any schedule, even on my own, most of the time.

But of course I'm always avaiblable to share knowledge with persons who are interested.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc

Now there's a novel concept! And how is there "not enough PT"? Do it on your own.

I can't do PT during work time, except for unit PT, and the rest of the time they dont let individuals go. The solution: do extra PT after work. And this is exactly what I do.

LOL I dont want to start complaining about my unit. This is a good unit, I just want more. "What's next!"

NousDefionsDoc · 10-12-2004, 14:57

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

10-12-2004, 17:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desert Fox

I can't because

Young man, you have already illustrated to me that if you were in the US Military, I would expect you to not pass selection for Special Forces. You have been given some guidance here that could help you. It went right over your head. You are not ready to even think about SOF.

Desert Fox · 10-12-2004, 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greenhat

Young man, you have already illustrated to me that if you were in the US Military, I would expect you to not pass selection for Special Forces. You have been given some guidance here that could help you. It went right over your head. You are not ready to even think about SOF.

LOL,
Sir,
I was just kidding with my "officers" things. I wasnt really serious about it...

I was obviously talking about official "qualifications". Of course I can share a lot of informations with others, and thats what I do. In the field, per example, I often like to challenge peoples by asking simple questions...like....what if there is an observer on that hill? What is the best direction to take in case of an ambush from that direction? What if, what if ...
The thing is, I just don't have the RIGHT to teach official material. Even if I'm qualified on something (i.e. a weapon), to teach it I still need to be qualified "instructor" on it. Of course, nothing stops me from just signing-in a weapon, put it on the ground, and with partners, challenge each others with fire orders.

Maybe it seemed I was thinking in a "dead-end" way. Forgive me if it is what you understood.

10-12-2004, 20:07

Professionals do what needs to be done, say what they mean, maintain situational awareness at all times and find solutions. So far, I'm hearing excuses.

Desert Fox · 10-12-2004, 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greenhat

Professionals do what needs to be done, say what they mean, maintain situational awareness at all times and find solutions. So far, I'm hearing excuses.

`

Mea Culpa,
I should be more serious, you are right sir. That's something I'm working on actually. Forgive me. I'm a nice person though

. We take a beer?

"say what they mean"....and...mean just what they say.

I remarked that all SOF operators seem to be very very serious. I am too, but sometime...well...I need to kick myself in the ass with both legs at the same time. It just takes me a lot of personal discipline, especially when I am in a good mood LOL. A person who is not showing seriousness don't gives a professional image. But personaly, I like crazy persons. But that is just a personal taste.

By the way, change the "I can't because", by "It is difficult because".

Damn, now all my fooking schedule is screwed, because it takes me a lot of time to answer messages. Papa Tango, end of station, OUT.

Big Chief · 10-18-2004, 12:09

Hello All,

I liked a majority of posts so far on this topic. Desert Fox, I understand your discontent for line units. Some units have better soldiers than others. The questions I have for you are: Why do you feel the need to beg your unit for more PT, better training, etc.? Does rank make you a leader or is it a quality you have inside?

I am not SF-qual and am hoping to go to Selection in FY05, but that does not mean I do not know a thing or two about warriorhood. As a warrior, a man is responsible for his own training - physical, mental, tactical, spiritual, what have you. You do PT on your own? Great! You tie knots when you have a free moment? Cool! You read books? Groovy! But is that really "Special?"

To me, being SF means realizing my potential as a warrior. A warrior is the utmost public servant. His life is for the good of the people (and team). Many of my elders showed me that its not what a man does in combat that makes him a warrior - its what he does out of combat. SF's mission is teacher/ambassador/leader first and combatant second, right? A warrior is always the first to pick up a shovel in the morning and the last to put it down at night. He is the first to offer his hand in friendship and the last to pick up the lance and go to war.

One man can do so much to improve the efficiency and effectiveness of a line company. The question is: Are you that man?

I love line companies, but being on an ODA means I can be a force multiplier in the grand scheme of things. By being truly awesome at my job (hopefully 18D), and giving everything I got to my team, I can potentially save the lives of thousands of my line buddies. It means I can hopefully create peace instead of make war.

Kung Fu translates to "Hard work over an extended period of time." Being a warrior is Kung Fu. There is no end to the hard work - ever. But, for me, that's ok. The alternative is someone else has to do it - my best friend? my mom? my gramma?

Warriors face the enemy not out of hate, but because they love their people, their way of life, and their land. When a warrior falls in battle, the people are next. That is why I do PT, not to pass some silly test or some Hoowah course. PT means the survival of my team, my family, my tribe, my Earth.

Crazy Horse's last words were "Tell the people they can rely on me no longer." Even in death, his last thoughts were about the wellfare of others and not himself.

That's why I want to go SF.... that and all the hot chicks!

**Jack Moroney (RIP)** · 10-18-2004, 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by odoylerules

.

And that's where I got this question: why should an individual want to be SF? Why did you? What's a good reason.

Doyle

For me it was a matter of disenchantment with conventional units. When I came in to the military (1965) there was a definite separation between officers and enlisted men and officers where judged more by their ability to look good than to do good. I entered the army to be a soldier but soon found out that my expectations of soldiering were incompatible with what those above me expected a young officer to do. I was counselled often because I chose to lead from the front not push from the rear, because I spent too much time making sure that we actually could perform the tasks expected of us, and had the audacity to have the troops teach me those soldier skills I was severly lacking because they were not "officer tasks". I was foolish enough to actually think that I should never ask a soldier to do something that I could not do our would not do myself if the need arose. I was equally foolish to think that if the troops had to freeze their butts off I had no business sitting in some tent around a stove drinking coffee and God forbid I should take some of that coffee out to the guys on site. While I knew that I was locked into being an officer I just thought the priorities in conventional units were ass backwards. I just had to be a soldier first and an officer second and that outlook was not compatible with the conventional units in the 60s. SF provided that for me and for me it was not only the right choice but the only choice. Had I not been able to enter SF after my first assignment I would have certainly left the military.

Jack Moroney

Desert Fox · 10-18-2004, 12:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Chief

Does rank make you a leader or is it a quality you have inside?

The answer is obviously INSIDE.

Napoleon said something like:
"Les hommes sont comme des chiffres, ils prennent de la valeur par leur position."

"humans are like numbers, they gain value with their position."

NousDefionsDoc · 10-18-2004, 13:03

Napoleon was an ass. He was more lucky than he was good. Quote winners.

Desert Fox · 10-18-2004, 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Moroney

I just had to be a soldier first and an officer second...

That was a nice one!

Desert Fox · 10-18-2004, 13:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc

Napoleon was an ass. He was more lucky than he was good. Quote winners.

LOL,

I disagree on that point but I think I'm starting to be off-topic.

Frederick II said: "Un général ne doit pas seulement être bon, encore doit-il être chanceux."

"A general not only has to be good, he also has to be lucky".