Becoming a doctor?

SeanM · 12-07-2004, 19:51

I read on here about the program they offer that allows some 18D's to go through and become a physicians assistant, but with the 18D training you receive in anatomy and physiology, how difficult do you think it would be to go through med school and become a doctor. Many of you guys talk about the skills not being able to cross over into the civilian world because they dont recognize the certifications. Wouldn't this be the best way to utilize your skillsets, and still do your job? Is there any feasibility in this option, or should one take another route, perhaps the PA program first to get a degree, and then apply directly to med school? Anyway, just a theory on how to transition to the civilian world. If this is completely off base, my apologies.

SeanM

**The Reaper** · 12-07-2004, 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeanM

I read on here about the program they offer that allows some 18D's to go through and become a physicians assistant, but with the 18D training you receive in anatomy and physiology, how difficult do you think it would be to go through med school and become a doctor. Many of you guys talk about the skills not being able to cross over into the civilian world because they dont recognize the certifications. Wouldn't this be the best way to utilize your skillsets, and still do your job? Is there any feasibility in this option, or should one take another route, perhaps the PA program first to get a degree, and then apply directly to med school? Anyway, just a theory on how to transition to the civilian world. If this is completely off base, my apologies.

SeanM

If you got the CLEP credit for the courses, you would be about 20% of the way there.

You are planning to use the SFMS Course, to springboard you to PA School, and thence to Med School?

You guys are all eat up with your long term planning.

Do a time line of that (assuming you can get through Basic Training), with the service obligation paybacks for each school.

TR

SeanM · 12-07-2004, 20:25

LOL, I'm not that crazy, and thats a long timeframe for someone whos not even 18D qualified, however for someone who's out, its an option. Its not uncommon for there to be people in their late 30's/40's in medical school. Just a thought...

DanUCSB · 12-07-2004, 21:14

I have never yet found TR to be wrong in his advice. However, on one small point I would caution you--CLEP credits carry very little weight out in academia, in my experience. That's a polite way of saying, I CLEPped like a madman while in, and while Austin Peay State accepted them, the UC (and many more prestigious schools) do not.

Moral is, I would depend on Podunk Community College credits for civilian crossover before I would any test-out/e-course options.

**Eagle5US** · 12-07-2004, 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeanM

LOL, I'm not that crazy, and thats a long timeframe for someone whos not even 18D qualified, however for someone who's out, its an option. Its not uncommon for there to be people in their late 30's/40's in medical school. Just a thought...

I wonder where exactly you pulled THIS information from.

National acceptance rates for MD programs for folks over the age of 35 is about 15%, DO programs significantly more lenient at about 35%. Why would I know this? Because I just went through this particular train of thought about 2 years ago after going through the 18D program and the PA program-and being 36 years old.
Another tid-bit for you to ponder-as a PA with a Master's degree in Emergency Medicine (minor in Family Medicine) and 6 years experience in Trauma, Family Practice and Rural venues. If I were to go to medical school I start at year ONE along with every 19 year old pimple faced yahoo who could be my own son.
There are no longer any advance placement programs for PA's going to MED school in this country from reputable institutions. Med schools were getting gyped out of hundreds of thousands of dollars in the past by allowing advanced placement so they stopped it.

As far as springboards-do us all a favor and don't waste the training slot. Get your loan or grant and go to school on your own dime. 18D builds habits that must be broken for PA school. PA school builds habits that Docs don't like.
Make your choice-

Eagle

Sacamuelas · 12-07-2004, 22:40

There is no CLEP testing for medical school or dental school courses that I have ever heard of- at least in the civilian world schools. This includes already taken major college undergraduate courses, junior college courses, nursing degree, or even an already obtained master's and PHD degree in whatever course you would have to take at the medical center.

At best, I would imagine you would be at an advantage in some of the basic science courses during the first two years of MD school. There is a big difference though in the level of detail and understanding that is required for medic/emt/18D's compared to medical school. It's simply a function of time available, as you are limited in the detail level of what you can spend time learning in a 2 yr 18D training course which has to cover ALL that an 18D must master in background knowledge and most importantly- application in the field. Compare that with the fact that medical school utilizes two full years on just the basic sciences with a second two years on clinical application. Then they do their residency for a couple of years to actually learn the all important- real world practical application of their profession.

You ought to rethink your plan if you want to go the MD route. IMO, there are better ways for the Army and better ways for you individually if that is your dream.

Good luck

SeanM · 12-08-2004, 03:24

That was just a hypothetical question that I was asking for those of you who were already out of the service. I, myself, have no intention really of doing such process, besides the fact that I am no where near a stage of even considering such path. I had just read the post about retired medical sargeants that couldn't translate what they learned in SF to the real world. However, I asked simply because I read that someone had done it in the past(not on this forum), and not seeing this career path posted up with the skillsets, simply posed the question of an option to follow such said path if it was at all possible/plausible. I see from the posts that it probably is not really feasible.

Eagle, that is some good advice, and like I said, it was just a question that no one really had asked up here that I saw at least. The Masters you got, was it through the PA program that I read about? I read that they do take a small percentage of 18D's into that program. Do you think the PA program is worth it for the civilian world?

By the way, I can't find the link now about the medical school acceptances, but I got it through a website that talked about what jobs translated from the army to civilian. They didn't post numbers, so I guess their site was a little subjective, and perhaps a little misleading. That was the misinformation I was going off of.

Anyway, like I said, this post wasn't intended for those using the program as a springboard to becoming a MD, it was just an idea to follow up with the skills learned as an 18D after finishing up. I guess what I said really isn't possible, based on time committments required to finish. Its unfortunate that schools won't advance you if you already have the knowledge.

Please do not take the initial post I made as someone who has their head up their ass with dreams of grandeur of becoming a MD. I just was curious if you guys had done this. My current focus is the 5m target, not even the 25m, and that is to concentrate what time I have left before I ship on PT, more PT, with some more PT, and when not doing PT, soaking up the knowledge here and sleeping, and the occasional eating. Anyway, I really do appreciate the responses. Hopefully, it helping answer some questions that people may have had about what to do when they are out of the service.

Thank you.

SeanM

**Eagle5US** · 12-08-2004, 11:21

Well said...good explaination and reasoning. Thanks for clearing all of that up for us.

I went BACK to school after PA school for my Masters. Many PA programs (including the current military program or "IPAP") now generate a Masters degree within their core curriculum. I went through the IPAP before this was available.

The PA school transition is a mixed bag. But it will support my family and I once I retire, I am still doing PART of what I love (medicine) with the chance to work with the Family I love (Special Forces) if no longer as a shooter, then as a person keeping them healthy and alive.

As an 18D, you know everything there is to know, as a PA you realize how lucky you were not to kill anyone while you were an 18D - I did an Emergency Medicine preceptorship for my Masters, I realized how lucky I was not to have killed anyone yet. My trauma residency starts this summer, I am certain that I will be thankful in prayer that my former patients still walk this Earth.

Bottom line, in medicine you can never learn too much from too many sources or experiences. If it's your niche, you're happy with that prospect for the long term.

Eagle

**Kyobanim** · 12-08-2004, 11:29

Just a little turn in the topic...

I've noticed more recently that there are more PAs than I realized. Maybe they've always been there and I just didn't notice. Is this something that has gained popularity as a medical career path recently or am I just blind?

**Eagle5US** · 12-08-2004, 13:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyobanim

Just a little turn in the topic...

I've noticed more recently that there are more PAs than I realized. Maybe they've always been there and I just didn't notice. Is this something that has gained popularity as a medical career path recently or am I just blind?

The PA profession has initiated a boom in PA schools nationwide. 10 years ago it was touted as the number 1 growing profession in the United States with less than 20 acredited programs. Now there are over 100 programs nationwide pumping out PA's faster than most other collegiate programs.
With the current health care system, each physician can have as many as 6 PA's working under him. We (generally) are able to do about 80% of what physicians do. So if you were a hospital administrator, would you rather hire 7 docs at $200K a year each or 1 doc at $200K and 6 PA's at $80K-$100K. Much depends on the state and the area of practice of course, but this is the general formula. PA's also are obligated to charge LESS for the same re-imbursable service, so insurance companies are more willing to pay the employment group for our services rendered.

Something IMPORTANT to look for with PA's though...is the "C" at the end. i.e. Billybob Tentpeg "PA-C". This "C" means that they have passed a national certification exam and denotes "Certified". It is not a requirement (outside of the military) that folks pass or even take this exam. It is expensive, long, and difficult, but adds a great deal of credibility to the PA in practice and employment.

Eagle

Sacamuelas · 12-08-2004, 13:21

Thanks for the info Eagle. I did not know about the "C" designation for national certification. I will add that to my "things to look for" toolbag when determining who can treat my family members.

SeanM · 12-08-2004, 13:34

Eagle, thanks for the very insightful and informative look into the PA profession. I myself had never even heard of a PA until a few months ago when I was trying to decide what I wanted to do with my life (originally was going to go in as a 91w). I had no idea that they were such a valuable addition to a hospital. (Note: this is not sarcasm, I really didn't know.) Anyway, its good too see that there is a good well paying civilian profession that an enlisted medic in the army can get into through a program the army offers. Makes me wonder how many times I was treated by the doctor or the PA...

**Kyobanim** · 12-08-2004, 13:35

Thanks Eagle. That's an eye opener. Sounds like a good deal for overworked docs.

BMT (RIP) · 12-08-2004, 13:54

Before the Army started the PA program WRAH sent a team to Bragg with a test for SF medics. They were eally surprised at the results and returned to DC to rewrite the test. WRAH had to rewrite the test three or four more times before they got the results they wanted. This was the start of the POI for the PA course.

The first PA class was 37 men,36SF medics and one LEG medic.

BMT

SeanM · 12-08-2004, 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMT

The first PA class was 37 men,36SF medics and one LEG medic.

BMT

Why am I not in the least surprised by that statistic.

SeanM