06-04-2004, 15:21
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#1
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Consigliere
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland (at last)
Posts: 8,767
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18D Ethical Issue
TR made a comment elsewhere that raised this issue in my mind:
When an 18D beats the living shit out of someone, is he then required to administer medical treatment?
LOL
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Roguish Lawyer is offline
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06-04-2004, 15:24
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#2
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Central TX
Posts: 1,390
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I suppose one could see this ethical dilemma one of two ways, there is either a "Conflict of Interest"; or the 18D is just providing himself with Job security.
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Air.177 is offline
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06-04-2004, 15:40
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#3
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Quiet Professional
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Location: LA
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WHAT THE HELL?
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Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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06-04-2004, 15:43
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#4
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Quiet Professional
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"Special Forces Medical Sergeant"
In my day, we were called Special Operations Medical Sergeants
Notice what comes first in both cases. Its not called Medical Special Operations Sergeant. Makin' Martyrs comes first.
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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06-04-2004, 15:44
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#5
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Tampa
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it depends...
I once beat the shit out of our junior weapons guy (who BTW did the 10 month Ranger school) for going to a DIFFERENT teams medic to get meds before a 25K foot HALO drop...the other medic didn't now about the drop, I didn't know about his drugs...he had rebound congestion, blew a sinus, and for treatment I broke his nose in the hallway when I found out what he had done. No additional "care" was given-at least not by me.
On the more serious side...once you cross the objective, anyone left still alive you have to care for. So...on crossing said OBJ, unless you want them as patients, mae sure they are dead.
Similiarly, 18D's were prohibited from being the primary shooters (snipers) when I was in B 2/7.
PA
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Primum non Nocere
"I have hung out in dangerous places a lot over the years, from combat zones to biker bars, and it is the weak, the unaware, or those looking for it, that usually find trouble.
Ain't no one getting out of this world alive. All you can do is try to have some choice in the way you go. Prepare yourself (and your affairs), and when your number is up, die on your feet fighting rather than on your knees. And make the SOBs pay dearly."
The Reaper-3 Sep 04
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Eagle5US is offline
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06-04-2004, 15:50
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#6
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Quote:
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Similiarly, 18D's were prohibited from being the primary shooters (snipers) when I was in B 2/7.
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Mmmm. That's a new one for me. I was the long gun (not very good at it - no patience), #1 rabbit, etc., the whole time I was in. think maybe they didn't consider me a real medic? Message there somewhere. 
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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06-04-2004, 16:16
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#7
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Colorado
Posts: 581
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Quote:
Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
"Special Forces Medical Sergeant"
In my day, we were called Special Operations Medical Sergeants
Notice what comes first in both cases. Its not called Medical Special Operations Sergeant. Makin' Martyrs comes first.
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Well said!
All of my guys are counseld on being gunfighters first. MOS responsibilities come second in my book.
My 18D is my primary shooter on the Barrett SWS, and quite the scrapper. Occasoinaly, someone else has to patch him up
mp
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MDP
"May God be with you and may the devil be crushed underfoot as you march for peace on the skulls of our enemies, for goodwill, security and a quality of life that comes only with democracy, " - Ted Nugent
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mffjm8509 is offline
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06-04-2004, 16:50
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#8
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Quiet Professional
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Quote:
Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
Mmmm. That's a new one for me. I was the long gun (not very good at it - no patience), #1 rabbit, etc., the whole time I was in. think maybe they didn't consider me a real medic? Message there somewhere.
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Concur.
Charlie D. was one of the best shots on 753, and humped the long gun for them.
Must have been a more recent change.
Newbies!
TR
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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06-04-2004, 17:21
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#9
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Quiet Professional
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How in the hell do provide medical treatment, if you run out there and get shot also?
Self aid...
Buddy aid...
Then once the shooting stops...here we come!
Shooter first then we provide Tx.
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“It is better to have sheep led by a lion than lions led by a sheep.”
-DE OPPRESSO LIBER-
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Guy is offline
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06-04-2004, 19:42
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#10
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Quiet Professional
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That is also news to me. Two of my best snipers were 18Ds. Sort of gave a whole new meaning to surgical precision.
Jack Moroney
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Jack Moroney (RIP) is offline
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06-04-2004, 19:55
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#11
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Quiet Professional
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Quote:
Originally posted by Guy
How in the hell do provide medical treatment, if you run out there and get shot also?
Then once the shooting stops...here we come!
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Guy, I think I'm missing something.....
Do you really agree that an 18D should stay out of the fight unil aid is needed?
mp
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MDP
"May God be with you and may the devil be crushed underfoot as you march for peace on the skulls of our enemies, for goodwill, security and a quality of life that comes only with democracy, " - Ted Nugent
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mffjm8509 is offline
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06-04-2004, 20:00
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#12
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Quiet Professional
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I'd like to meet the man that could keep Guy out of a fight. LOL
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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06-04-2004, 20:03
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#13
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: May 2004
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Quote:
Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
I'd like to meet the man that could keep guy out of a fight. LOL
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NDD,
I dont know Guy, but his posts here seem very level headed to me......
Thats why I think I missed something on that last post....
My medic will be fighting......I couldnt stop him if I wanted too....
Hell, he's fought me at more than one drunken team party....and thats exactly the kind of aggressiveness I want on my team no matter what MOS.
mp
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v/r
MDP
"May God be with you and may the devil be crushed underfoot as you march for peace on the skulls of our enemies, for goodwill, security and a quality of life that comes only with democracy, " - Ted Nugent
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mffjm8509 is offline
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06-04-2004, 20:04
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#14
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Quote:
Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
I'd like to meet the man that could keep guy out of a fight. LOL
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No problems, he is a little guy, about 3'6", if I remember correctly.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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06-04-2004, 20:05
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#15
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Quiet Professional
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Reaper
No problems, he is a little guy, about 3'6", if I remember correctly.
TR
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That one's going to leave a mark. LOL
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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