Civilian NREMTP > 18D

Antons · 06-27-2006, 21:31

Hi all,
First post out side of my introduction here: Click

I apologize a head of time since I already tried to do a forums search but couldnt find any new information on what I'm about to ask. However I'm a ANG member looking at cross training over to 18D from my current guard job. My civilian job is working EMS in St Louis City, and am finishing up my P license in a few months. I've heard that you must go through the 18D course, however I'm trying to find out if you are able to test out of certain areas of the 18D course if you already are a NREMTP to expedite training.

I know USAF pararescue lets you do this since they award them with a NREMTP license and with the under staffing the emphasis is trying to get trained professionals to their units as fast as possible.

Either way, I'm sure the 18D course will still be more than a challenge ontop of the expanded subject matter that isnt taught in the National Registry curriculum, so it sounds like one heck of a refresher course. But again, any clearification would be great.

Thank you.

Surgicalcric · 06-28-2006, 05:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antons

...I've heard that you must go through the 18D course, however I'm trying to find out if you are able to test out of certain areas of the 18D course if you already are a NREMTP to expedite training.

The answer to your question is here on the forums. Your search criteria may have just been too broad.

Currently there isn't a way for NREMT-P's to "CLEP" out of areas covered in NREMT-P certification courses ie: A&P, ACLS, PHTLS, BLS. It has been discussed before by the Dean of JSOMT-C but it hasnt come to be.

Also you cant cross train into 18D unless you are already hold an 18-series MOS. You can transfer to a NG SF unit and attend the course as a part of the SFQC.

Quote:

I know USAF pararescue lets you do this since they award them with a NREMTP license and with the under staffing the emphasis is trying to get trained professionals to their units as fast as possible.

Its my understanding, from speaking to many of the instructors at JSOMT-C, that since the Air Force does there own thing with regard to the PJ Medic course that it is not much different, in didactic, than NREMT-P. Having said that, I have found the SOCM approach to trauma different than what I was taught during my paramedic courses. Then again I have only been a paramedic for going on 14 years now... damn I am getting old

Quote:

Either way, I'm sure the 18D course will still be more than a challenge on top of the expanded subject matter that isnt taught in the National Registry curriculum, so it sounds like one heck of a refresher course. But again, any clearification would be great.

Thank you.

And if you think the 18-D course is a refresher for your medic certification you are going to be in for a rude awakening. Oh, one more thing. NREMT-P is a certification, not a license.

Hope I answered your questions.

Crip

**Eagle5US** · 06-28-2006, 06:50

Well I guess that about covers it Crip

Class, please direct your attention to the new AI on the floor

Eagle

x SF med · 06-28-2006, 07:00

"...so it sounds like one heck of a refresher course."

Bwahahaha!!!! Crip - I see your rude awakening, and raise a kick in the ass to Antons', 'Refresher Course'.

Anton- there's an old song "You ain't seen nothing, yet" that you ought to keep playing in your head during the 18D course - it'll come in handy - and 'Goodbye Yellow Brick Road" will be playing if you think you're going to skate because of your NREMT-P. Focus and learn, that's the key.

Antons · 06-30-2006, 21:02

Thank you for the information Crip, it helped a lot.

Books · 06-30-2006, 21:05

Crip -

Well, for what it's worth, a fellow in my class was allowed to skip med funds because he was a former NREMT-P and an Emergency Room Physician's Assistant prior to coming to the Q from the NG. Extreme cases always seem to find a way, eh? Certainly the exception to the rule.

There you have it: a six week boost in the course for approximately 3-4 years total training/education and some 10 years combined civilian trauma experience. You do the math. Oh yeah, he still studies his ass off just like the rest of us.

One of my instructors explained it pretty well, "You can only drink from the firehose for so long before you begin to choke and drown." Personally, I'm looking for a set of gills.

Drive on,
Books

**Eagle5US** · 07-01-2006, 06:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Books

Crip -

...a fellow in my class was allowed to skip med funds because he was a former NREMT-P and an Emergency Room Physician's Assistant

I think this was probably the key statement...

PA

Books · 07-01-2006, 09:08

Yep.

Surgicalcric · 07-01-2006, 09:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagle5US

I think this was probably the key statement...

PA

Infact I know it was the key Sir.

Books:

I have had the pleasure of speaking with the Dean on several occasions and this very subject has always come up. Wonder why... The answer was and still is no to us (NREMT-P's). They were trying to find a way for NREMT-P's to skip individual classes (med funds, trauma A, ACLS, PEPP (for those with a current PALS card, etc...)) but they havent been able to work out the details to do so.

There are 3 PA's currently in the course. All of them have "skipped" different parts of the course. There are 7 NREMT-P's in the course that I know of; none of us have been given advanced placement based on our certification status.

As for PA's, there is one in my class and he is an NREMT as well. He was allowed to skip 'Funds, Trauma A, and Surgical Skills. He joined our class with TC-3 and found himself "lost in the sauce." It was not a pretty site watching him try to learn "sticks and rags" and trauma sequence both at the same time. He pulled it out in the end but there was some question in the instructors minds. He is also skipping SOCM rotation, some med blocks, and the SOC-T rotation. He is a NG guy as well and total time in the Delta course will be just under 6 months. Damn PA's...lol

As much as I would love to have been able to skip 'Funds, Trauma A, TC3, ACLS, PEPP/PALS, and SOCM rotation I have found sometimes one doesn't quite know as much as he may think. Those of us ahead of the game have a responsibility to our brothers in training and those on teams now to square those struggling away as much as possible. This is providing they are already doing their best and want to learn. {SIDE BAR/ I have little time and no patience for those looking to scrape by and/or those who have time for "other things" but none to study. Emergency medicine is not the place, IMHO, for those not dedicated to saving lives. /SIDE BAR}

And thats all I have to say about this subject.

Books you have my number. If you are having trouble call me.

Crip

NousDefionsDoc · 07-01-2006, 10:12

I don't favor skipping....

**Eagle5US** · 07-01-2006, 13:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surgicalcric

As for PA's, there is one in my class and he is an NREMT as well. He was allowed to skip 'Funds, Trauma A, and Surgical Skills. He joined our class with TC-3 and found himself "lost in the sauce." It was not a pretty site watching him try to learn "sticks and rags" and trauma sequence both at the same time. He pulled it out in the end but there was some question in the instructors minds.

Crip

This type of performance indicate (IMHO) that this particular person perhaps should have been placed back where he would have learned / re-learned his skill set exceptionally well...instead of "getting by". Sometimes advanced placement fails in the end-not academically, but in it's performance result.

His allowance to continue (unfortunately) will more than likely generate two sets of comments:

1. Damn PA's...

and to worse of the two

2. I'm sorry Sir / Ma'am...I tried the best I could to save him, I just didn't know what else to do

Crip: I do belive you are speaking the very words regarding those who "scrape by" that we Deltas spoke to you on the beginning of your journey. It is more than pleasant to hear them repeated with such sincerity.

Eagle

NousDefionsDoc · 07-01-2006, 13:57

Indeed Brother Eagle, the Pilgrim has come far....it has been gratifying watching his posts change over the 10 years or so he has been in the pipeline.

Surgicalcric · 07-01-2006, 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc

Indeed Brother Eagle, the Pilgrim has come far....it has been gratifying watching his posts change over the 10 years or so he has been in the pipeline.

Ouch...

Books · 07-01-2006, 18:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surgicalcric

Books you have my number. If you are having trouble call me.

Crip

Crip,

Thanks for the offer; I appreciate it. So far I'm doing alright (top quarter or so of my class) and I'm stoked to be moving from the theory to the practice (pt assessment, airway management, etc.). It's bitchin' stuff and I can tell that the curriculum developers have put together a program that will lay a great foundation for a lifetime of practicing medicine.

In fact, my biggest gripe is that there will always be a disparity between that which I do and that which I could have done: I can always see something else that I need to study more, investigate more. Every answer found begs another question, right? Except that there's only so much time in the day. . . no wonder Doctors spend four years in med school after a few years doing premed, only to jump into another 3-4 years of residency before they are considered "masters" of their domain. After that, they study some more. The subject is that big.

Speaking of which, there's a lull in the storm created by the holiday guests and I got a thick scary medic book looking to pick a fight.

Take care,
Books

NousDefionsDoc · 07-01-2006, 22:41

Quote:

In fact, my biggest gripe is that there will always be a disparity between that which I do and that which I could have done: I can always see something else that I need to study more, investigate more. Every answer found begs another question, right?

That Sluggo is the life for which you volunteered. It is the same with every MOS in Special Forces. We are never there, we are always "Workin' the prob Boss." When you think you've made it and there's nothing else to learn, you are deluding yourself and it's time to seek life elsewhere.

You are begining to understand why the term "Special" in front. You are in the easy part now, it only gets tougher. If you get to a Team, you will have infiltration methods, additional skills and cross training. Language and culture is constant and continuous. You'll be expected, nay demanded of, to maintain all these skills to a standard of which a Spartan would be proud. If you're good and don't get your rucksack slung down the hall or get dead, eventually, about the time you start getting your MOS figured out, they'll start looking at you for Team Sergeant, a whole new set of skills.

Selection doesn't end when you get a class date, it also is constant and continuous. You will be evaluated by your peers and your command every day, every move you make. Every time you open that aid bag, every one of your Brothers will watch every move you make. Being The Medic, you have to set the example for every other member of the Team. They all love a good Doc, nobody will stand for a shit Doc.

You are the one they call when shit ain't right, when they're hurtin', when they feel bad. And you by God better be ready.

If it was easy, any simple-minded leg pussy could do it. Quit whinging and get it done or quit - the True Believer is waiting for your young ass and you better believe he'll be ready....