04-19-2006, 18:18
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#1
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Tampa
Posts: 2,496
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What 18D ISN'T...
I ran into a young SPC today at Waller Hall during my outprocessing from Ft. Lewis. After seeing my uniform, he (the E-4) looked at me (the CPT) and said:
"Yo man-I'm goin Special Forces too-on my way to jump school and the Q course right now".
"Really?", I mused..."Congradualtions on passing SFAS. Tell me, how far do you think you are going to get addressing folks senior to you by saying "Yo Man""?
He stared at me rather blankly...like my dog does when he doesn't understand what I am telling him what to do and he cocks his head to one side...
"Sir?" he says totally confused..."but I'm going to be SF-we're all on the same team...there is no rank structure in SF...everyone is equal, all the same  "
I explained to him that his perception wasn't quite on track. What was somewhat amazing were his OTHER perceptions regarding his slotted profession...18D.
From his account, he was told these things at SFAS by various cadre. Please allow me to clear them a bit, as many of them have to do with a transition to PA school or other medical specialty.
1. After 18D, he was gauranteed selction to PA school.- FALSE
2. If he so desired within 2 years of graduation from the 18D course-he was authorized to CHALLENGE the National PA certification exam and didn't have to even go to PA school. FALSE
3. 18 Active Duty 18D's are gauranteed slots in PA school every year. FALSE
4. 18D graduates need only 2 years of additional training to become a Veterinarian FALSE
5. 18D grads can work in any hospital in the United States in the capacity of an RN or PA based on their 18D credentials FALSE
There were more, but he was most adamant with these issues, even had them writtne in his little notebook that he brought out of his bag to argue his points.
Guys, if you want to be a PA, Nurse, or a Vet...go to school for those things. If you want to be an SF Medical Provider-attend the training, learn good things so you can do GREAT things.
Want to be an 18D? Then BE the best 18D that ever threw a stitch, floated teeth, or rolled the bones.
Eagle
__________________
Primum non Nocere
"I have hung out in dangerous places a lot over the years, from combat zones to biker bars, and it is the weak, the unaware, or those looking for it, that usually find trouble.
Ain't no one getting out of this world alive. All you can do is try to have some choice in the way you go. Prepare yourself (and your affairs), and when your number is up, die on your feet fighting rather than on your knees. And make the SOBs pay dearly."
The Reaper-3 Sep 04
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Eagle5US is offline
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04-19-2006, 18:41
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#2
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Asset
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 37
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Eagle5US,
I ran into an identical young man today and he had the exact same ideas. I explained the prereqs for PA school and the application process. I directed him here to research and your post should set him straight.
__________________
It's easier to ask forgiveness than to ask permission...however the path to least resistance leads to crooked rivers and crooked men.
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Croooz is offline
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04-19-2006, 18:52
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#3
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LA
Posts: 1,653
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I can't even imagine what would have happened if a troop had ever addressed The Reaper as "Yo man" in front of us.
I hate that Boat Company shit.
Wish I had been there... 
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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04-19-2006, 19:21
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#4
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Tampa
Posts: 2,496
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc
I can't even imagine what would have happened if a troop had ever addressed The Reaper as "Yo man" in front of us.
I hate that Boat Company shit.
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Kindler, gentler...I friggin hate it and I DON'T do it well. I know-I've been counseled on it 
Eagle
__________________
Primum non Nocere
"I have hung out in dangerous places a lot over the years, from combat zones to biker bars, and it is the weak, the unaware, or those looking for it, that usually find trouble.
Ain't no one getting out of this world alive. All you can do is try to have some choice in the way you go. Prepare yourself (and your affairs), and when your number is up, die on your feet fighting rather than on your knees. And make the SOBs pay dearly."
The Reaper-3 Sep 04
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Eagle5US is offline
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04-19-2006, 20:56
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#5
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Bladesmith to the Quiet Professionals
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Oregon, Land of the Silver Grey Sunsets
Posts: 3,879
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc
I can't even imagine what would have happened if a troop had ever addressed The Reaper as "Yo man" in front of us.
Wish I had been there... |
NDD,
That would be worthy of video.
That and when this new guy said that to Eagle5US.
Let me color in just a bit more of the picture, Eagle5US was gracious enough to let me stay at his house a few weeks ago. I notice little things that add up to thoughts like "This bubba played college football or wrestled heavyweight" but never said it out loud.
Maybe it was the new camo Eagle was wearing that took away that simplest of obvious character judgments which is the "can this guy kick my ass and how fast is it going to happen" thing.
Last edited by Bill Harsey; 04-19-2006 at 21:32.
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Bill Harsey is offline
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04-20-2006, 06:32
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#6
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Asscrackistan
Posts: 4,289
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Students
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Eagle5US
I ran into a young SPC today at Waller Hall during my outprocessing from Ft. Lewis. After seeing my uniform, he (the E-4) looked at me (the CPT) and said:
"Yo man-I'm goin Special Forces too-on my way to jump school and the Q course right now".
"Really?", I mused..."Congradualtions on passing SFAS. Tell me, how far do you think you are going to get addressing folks senior to you by saying "Yo Man""?
He stared at me rather blankly...like my dog does when he doesn't understand what I am telling him what to do and he cocks his head to one side...
"Sir?" he says totally confused..."but I'm going to be SF-we're all on the same team...there is no rank structure in SF...everyone is equal, all the same " |
Bit off subject but...
When I instructed on the 18C Committee, I had a formation at the beginning of my Block of instruction and at the end. My instruction was in the middle of the course, so Students seem to get "loose" in their ways. I would look at the students Uniform, Hair, ETC. Well, I never thought of it as BS stuff, its the basic soldiering things that must if not all of us would (& should) do. I had them on Thursday or Friday, that when my block started, so it was good because on Monday I would have a Re-inspection followed by a Pop Quiz. Amazing thing was how many students just blow off the fact that there boots, uniform, hair, whatever was still soup. After I had told them to get the stuff fixed. I relieved about 5-6 Sq Ldrs mainly for them being soup. Lucky the Committee computer already had pre-done DA 4856 Counseling forms for just about everything.
The sad fact was I got some "heat" from a few of the instructors. Most came from guys that had their own problems. But, they just didn't get the whole mentorship thing??
Just like Eagle and Croooz running into these Soldiers. I feel this is and has been the thought process with future SF soldiers. Maybe not all, but most. Just like guy coming into SF prior to GWOT, thinking SF was all "Door Kicking". Some soldiers (18X or In-service) have this idea that we are this first name no rank branch. Instructors (SFQC) and the first team drive how these "young" future QP will be. I wish more QP would put a Size Whatever in the forth point of contact when its needed.
My Rant and .02.
__________________
"Berg Heil"
History teaches that when you become indifferent and lose the will to fight someone who has the will to fight will take over."
COLONEL BULL SIMONS
Intelligence failures are failures of command [just] as operations failures are command failures.”
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MtnGoat is offline
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04-20-2006, 06:39
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#7
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 3,045
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Quote:
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I can't even imagine what would have happened if a troop had ever addressed The Reaper as "Yo man" in front of us.
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I'd pay real money to see this or any other instance like this.
__________________
"Are you listening or just waiting to talk?"
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
"Fate rarely calls upon us at a moment of our choosing."
Optimus Prime
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Kyobanim is offline
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04-20-2006, 11:09
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#8
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 407
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by MtnGoat
Some soldiers (18X or In-service) have this idea that we are this first name no rank branch.
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Even if it were true, wouldn't that egalitarianism be restricted to tabbed guys? As is frequently pointed out on the SFAS board, passing Selection isn't the end of the road by any stretch.
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Slantwire is offline
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04-20-2006, 12:32
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#9
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: OCONUS...again
Posts: 4,702
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Send him my way...
I can tell you for a FACT! Especially here in California...
If you want to further your career after 18D. You WILL be attending some courses...college that is! 
Take care.
__________________
“It is better to have sheep led by a lion than lions led by a sheep.”
-DE OPPRESSO LIBER-
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Guy is offline
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04-20-2006, 14:58
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#10
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,780
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If you got his name, I will start a pool on his successfully completing the SFQC.
I will give odds.
I did have a civilian gate guard with long hair and a beard say "Hey Dude" to me one morning when they converted the checkpoints at Bragg. After I discovered that there were no military personnel at the checkpoint, I called the MP Desk Sergeant and reviewed his instructions to the guards reference addressing military personnel. I hoped to speak to the young man again when I came through the next morning, but for some reason, I never saw him there again.
I wish him more luck in the fast food industry, where his talents could be better utilized.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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04-20-2006, 18:36
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#11
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Wherever my ruck finds itself
Posts: 2,972
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by MtnGoat
...Students seem to get "loose" in their ways. I would look at the students Uniform, Hair, ETC...
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Might not want to visit SWMG(A) ( JSOMT-C) then. You might have a coronary, but you would be in good hands. 
Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Reaper
...I wish him more luck in the fast food industry, where his talents could be better utilized.
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Sir:
I think the fast food industry is where they get some of those guys.
Crip
__________________
"It's better to die on your feet than live on your knees."
"Its not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me" -Batman
"There are no obstacles, only opportunities for excellence."- NousDefionsDoc
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Surgicalcric is offline
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06-15-2006, 10:35
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#12
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: In transit somewhere
Posts: 4,044
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Guys, to this day, I would never think of addressing an unknown active duty SF SNCO or O as "hey Dude". Unless it was someone I had served with and knew the guy, I wouldn't do it to any AD soldier in uniform.
I'm trying to think what any of my Det COs, Co COs, Team Daddies, or SGMs would have done to me had I walked up and addressed them in that manner, unless invited to do so in the team house, never outside the team. My Co SGM was George H. "Joe" Higgs - I would have been hamburger had I ever addressed him as Joe, and he split my time between the ODB and ODA pretty well in half. When the Scuba Team Daddy (Frankie Dooms) took over as SGM - he still allowed those of us who had been around to call him "Top", but that was a privelege outside of the Co HQ. (any names above are no longer on the active rolls, and should not constitute an OPSEC violation).
In the Co Area, Team house or IFac - things might get a little looser - inside the team, and inside the Company was different from the rest of the world. still professional, but looser. In the world we were expected to be professionals, and treat senior soldiers with the utmost respect.
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x SF med is offline
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06-15-2006, 23:05
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#13
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Colorado
Posts: 754
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That is pretty much how it was for me and within my Team. In the Teamhouse or out in the field, we could address the CO, XO and Team Daddy by thier nicknames or first names. Anywhere else it was pure Military Courtesy. That was ONLY within my Team. Only after permission to do so was given from the top down. As x-sf-med stated. I wouldn't even imagine addressing an Officer or higher ranking NCO in any other way then was taught to me in Basic. Makes me wonder what they are being taught in just Basic alone. Besides, I never use the word 'dude'
__________________
Brad...
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12B4S is offline
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06-17-2006, 20:55
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#14
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 982
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Eagle5US
I ran into a young SPC today at Waller Hall during my outprocessing from Ft. Lewis. After seeing my uniform, he (the E-4) looked at me (the CPT) and said:
"Yo man-I'm goin Special Forces too-on my way to jump school and the Q course right now".
"Really?", I mused..."Congradualtions on passing SFAS. Tell me, how far do you think you are going to get addressing folks senior to you by saying "Yo Man""?
He stared at me rather blankly...like my dog does when he doesn't understand what I am telling him what to do and he cocks his head to one side...
"Sir?" he says totally confused..."but I'm going to be SF-we're all on the same team...there is no rank structure in SF...everyone is equal, all the same "
I explained to him that his perception wasn't quite on track. What was somewhat amazing were his OTHER perceptions regarding his slotted profession...18D.
From his account, he was told these things at SFAS by various cadre. Please allow me to clear them a bit, as many of them have to do with a transition to PA school or other medical specialty.
1. After 18D, he was gauranteed selction to PA school.- FALSE
2. If he so desired within 2 years of graduation from the 18D course-he was authorized to CHALLENGE the National PA certification exam and didn't have to even go to PA school. FALSE
3. 18 Active Duty 18D's are gauranteed slots in PA school every year. FALSE
4. 18D graduates need only 2 years of additional training to become a Veterinarian FALSE
5. 18D grads can work in any hospital in the United States in the capacity of an RN or PA based on their 18D credentials FALSE
There were more, but he was most adamant with these issues, even had them writtne in his little notebook that he brought out of his bag to argue his points.
Guys, if you want to be a PA, Nurse, or a Vet...go to school for those things. If you want to be an SF Medical Provider-attend the training, learn good things so you can do GREAT things.
Want to be an 18D? Then BE the best 18D that ever threw a stitch, floated teeth, or rolled the bones.
Eagle |
I have to throw out the BS flag on this SP4's story. None of the Cadre at SFAS talk about these type of things with a student. Matter of fact, they limit their conversation with candidates on purpose.
I say this because I was at Camp Mackall with SFAS Students and never heard this type of crap mentioned by the cadre.
An 18D is not a PA. A PA can not engage the enemy. You want to kill bad guys? Go 18D. You want to have a career treating sick people? Go PA.
Let me say for the record, PA's have more training than an 18D. Let me also say 18D's are the heart and soul of a Team.
Try deploying without one.
Doc
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De Oppresso Liber
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Doc is offline
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06-18-2006, 06:44
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#15
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Guerrilla Chief
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 704
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The guy sounded profoundly stupid at worst or without any situational awareness at all at best. I have to agree with DOC and call BS.
Last edited by Five-O; 06-18-2006 at 09:14.
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Five-O is offline
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