Why 'SF Readiness Assessments?'

[mattbuy]

Am I enlisting- short answer-yes. I would want to commit 6-10 years.
NG or regular Army -leaning to regular enlistment.
In what capacity? However I can track into SF the fastest.

I have another two years before I can be free of my obligations in Ukraine. The great thing is there is plenty of time to PT. My routine now is daily extensive 2 hr PT .

Barring injury, would like to track into SF in some capacity. I know my options are limited with age. But until I see signs of my aging I will go forward.

If I can hook up with some NG in Texas it would be easier for me for now to get info and direction, but again I wont be around until Feb '12 to talk in person.


PS. WET DOG sorry about the testy reply to your PM earlier.

[The Reaper]

matt:

I seriously doubt that you are going to be able to get the security clearance necessary to join SF, even if you could meet the rest of the requirements.

Best of luck.

TR

[mattbuy]

Could you elaborate on the security clearance issues in a pm if necessary. thanks.

[69stang]

I had the opportunity to go through the readiness assessment for A/2/20th, and coming from a regular guard unit, it was a real eye opener. The guys running the show were very professional and took it extremely serious as they were scrutinizing over the very guys that may one day be on the same teams as them. I'm grateful these guys put on these assessments and the follow up training team weekends, it helped me get myself set up for SFAS mentally and physically.

[stevekoz]

QP's and those that have attended the Readiness Assessment...

I was initially pursuing an 18X contract for Indiana and the A/2/20th. However after a few weeks talking to the recruiter and then to the SFC for the unit I was informed that the Rep-63 was not an option.
My only options would be 11B or 92R. Then tryout.
I am fully willing to go the 11B route and attend the readiness assessment. My only concern is that when I get to my unit after basic and AIT, that I am not released to attend. My question is how difficult is it to be released to attend the SFRA weekend?
A little background info... I would be enlisting as an E-4, non-prior service, 11B.

[Scimitar]

Different states approach it differently; I'm out of the loop now, but at its most basic

A) Some send you thru from basic to graduation (18x styles)
B) Others enlist you in the local NG SF unit and you break the pipeline up
C) Others enlist you in another unit in the state, (i.e. 11B) ship you to a broken pipeline and if not selected there's no messy paperwork trying to kick you out of the SF unit. It can be like you're on the local conventional unit’s books, but borrowed by the SF unit, and yes in some cases this can make your pipeline a little unpredictable.

It sounds like your State may have just changed from A to C.

It really comes down to weighing the risks; you can easily enlist in States close to you, who may have a system that is more favourable to your goals and needs. But in many ways the 'C' option, although a little informal, basically guarantees you a shot at local SFRA anyway.

I personally can't talk to intelligently about SFRA.

HTH

S

[abc_123]

Regarding getting released.... Yes technically you would need permission to split out for that weekend to attend the SFRA and then subsequent drills to train up for SFAS. Speaking from experience, its not going to be that big of a deal. A commander would have to be a huge dick to not allow you to split out to attend tryouts and a few months of train up prior to SFAS...and for what? Its not like you as a new(er) E4 in the unit will be mission critical. And chances are that it is good for his numbers to have you on the books.

If you are in the ARNG of the state where the unit is there will be even LESS chance of any issues. If for some reason you have issues, call the SF unit and they might be able to help work with your chain of command. But I can't see it coming to that.

It's been a Loooong time since A/2/20 dealt with REPs... and my memory goes back a ways now. Tried that when strength was an issue and ended up with a bunch of people hanging around that either kept putting of going to selection, failed selection etc. Non-quals that the unit had to then deal with and move on or otherwise get rid of. Going 11B or some other MOS first is best for the unit and the state. You get qualified in an MOS and help out some other units numbers. iF you get selected then great Xfer into the SF unit and go to the Q. If not, no paperwork for the SF unit or anyone else for that matter to do. You just go on back to drilling with your unit.

As an FYI, I am assuming that you know that A/2/20 is moving to IN. E date 1 SEP 16 IIRC. Camp Atturbury, IN.

[stevekoz]

Originally Posted by Scimitar

Different states approach it differently; I'm out of the loop now, but at its most basic

A) Some send you thru from basic to graduation (18x styles)
B) Others enlist you in the local NG SF unit and you break the pipeline up
C) Others enlist you in another unit in the state, (i.e. 11B) ship you to a broken pipeline and if not selected there's no messy paperwork trying to kick you out of the SF unit. It can be like you're on the local conventional unit’s books, but borrowed by the SF unit, and yes in some cases this can make your pipeline a little unpredictable.

It sounds like your State may have just changed from A to C.

It really comes down to weighing the risks; you can easily enlist in States close to you, who may have a system that is more favourable to your goals and needs. But in many ways the 'C' option, although a little informal, basically guarantees you a shot at local SFRA anyway.

I personally can't talk to intelligently about SFRA.

HTH

S

Thanks,
From what it seems is that...
1. I live in IN and, currently, the unit is still in Chicago until September 2016, so IN cannot offer me an 18X.
2. After speaking to the A/2/20 recruiting rep. he doesn't think the unit is even offering the 18x/ Rep 63 because they have been getting burned by guys not making it so they are resorting to option C.

I am fully on board with an 11B contract and trying out. I actually feel more confident with that route and being able to drill with the unit to prepare for SFAS. From what I've read on the forum and from talking to the reps from the unit I think they said something like a 95% pass rate with they're guidance.

I do know that they are moving. Now knowing that I should have no problem getting released to attend the tryout I will definitely be pursuing that route.
I am hyper motivated but realistic. As a civilian off the street with limited experience with forced marches, land nav, and basic soldiering I see the 11B as a good foundation and experience. I really appreciate everyone's input.

It seems a little crazy still with the unit being in IL, but moving to IN, while having the SFRA in IN at Atterbury. I only live about an hour to an hour and a half southwest of Atterbury (aprox.)

If I have any more questions, I know where to come.

[SF-TX]

Originally Posted by stevekoz

2. After speaking to the A/2/20 recruiting rep. he doesn't think the unit is even offering the 18x/ Rep 63 because they have been getting burned by guys not making it so they are resorting to option C.

Unless the Rep 63 program has changed, you are getting bad information. The Rep 63 program is a win-win for the gaining state. If you are successful in the Q-course, the unit gains an MOS-Q SF soldier. If you fail the Q-course, and after any recycles have been exhausted, you revert to your initial acquisition MOS and the respective state assigns you to a unit. The state still gains a qualified soldier.

Additionally, the NG SF unit doesn't pay a dime for the Rep 63 training. Nor does the state. It is a federal program that pays for a first-time enlistee to become MOS-Q, in whatever MOS the state has a need. The only thing the NG SF unit may control, is whether or not they want the state to enlist you under the Rep 63 program with an 18-series MOS. In Texas, the NG SF units have approval authority on whether or not recruiters enlist a soldier for SF under the Rep-63 program.

{Edit: If you are trying to enlist in Indiana and they don't have an SF unit, that is likely why you can't get a Rep 63 contract for SF.If the unit is moving to Indiana, your state would have to ask for an exception, based on the fact they will be gaining an SF unit.}

[stevekoz]

Originally Posted by SF-TX

Unless the Rep 63 program has changed, you are getting bad information. The Rep 63 program is a win-win for the gaining state. If you are successful in the Q-course, the unit gains an MOS-Q SF soldier. If you fail the Q-course, and after any recycles have been exhausted, you revert to your initial acquisition MOS and the respective state assigns you to a unit. The state still gains a qualified soldier.

Additionally, the NG SF unit doesn't pay a dime for the Rep 63 training. Nor does the state. It is a federal program that pays for a first-time enlistee to become MOS-Q, in whatever MOS the state has a need. The only thing the NG SF unit may control, is whether or not they want the state to enlist you under the Rep 63 program with an 18-series MOS. In Texas, the NG SF units have approval authority on whether or not recruiters enlist a soldier for SF under the Rep-63 program.

{Edit: If you are trying to enlist in Indiana and they don't have an SF unit, that is likely why you can't get a Rep 63 contract for SF.If the unit is moving to Indiana, your state would have to ask for an exception, based on the fact they will be gaining an SF unit.}

It seems as though it isn't being offered.

There is more than one path to the top of the mountain.

[jeremiah.runser]

I agree with abc_123.

I had the pleasure of meeting 18Ddave on an exercise a few months ago (I was the public affairs guy from Indiana), and discussed my interest in the unit with him. He was the deciding factor for me to really devote myself to SF. His team was amazing; knowledgeable, very professional, and above all, inspiring.

I recently tried out with 20th Group when they made the state transition and it seems like a very effective, well-run program.

By day 2 we had 5 men left, of the 35ish that we started with, including myself. The entire event was a real gut-check and it seems like a vital weeding-out process to really keep the candidates with the most potential.

The problem was, on the last event no one met the required time. Two or three of us were within seconds, 20 or less, but the remaining candidates were at least 5-7 minutes off.

Due to that, all of us were dismissed. no board.

Now, this is just my opinion, and I am clearly biased, but wouldn't it be better to keep those candidates that are close, remediate them, mentor them, then send them to selection?

Regardless, they will be training each drill weekend they attend with the training team, and if that were the case, they can hone their deficiencies and rectify them.

Now, for example, one of those candidates, which is one of the best guys I have had the pleasure of working with, is pursuing a career path with 19th Group.

Originally Posted by abc_123

I will have to disagree.

Potential candidates that meet the minimum requirements fro SFAS that have completed packets (valid physical, PT test etc.)should be processed and sent .... as soon as possible.

Your "go" rate should approximate that of the rest of the Army. If not, the question that it begs is who is your program weeding out that ultimately would be assessed as trainable?...or have dropped off the net for waiting.

Perhaps processing more than 20 packets a year and sending more people to selection at a lower success rate, would result in more SF Tabs coming out of the pipe; with the end result being a unit that doesn't go downrange shorthanded or requiring cross-leveling from other units.

[abc_123]

Originally Posted by jeremiah.runser

I agree with abc_123.

I had the pleasure of meeting 18Ddave on an exercise a few months ago (I was the public affairs guy from Indiana), and discussed my interest in the unit with him. He was the deciding factor for me to really devote myself to SF. His team was amazing; knowledgeable, very professional, and above all, inspiring.

I recently tried out with 20th Group when they made the state transition and it seems like a very effective, well-run program.

By day 2 we had 5 men left, of the 35ish that we started with, including myself. The entire event was a real gut-check and it seems like a vital weeding-out process to really keep the candidates with the most potential.

The problem was, on the last event no one met the required time. Two or three of us were within seconds, 20 or less, but the remaining candidates were at least 5-7 minutes off.

Due to that, all of us were dismissed. no board.

Now, this is just my opinion, and I am clearly biased, but wouldn't it be better to keep those candidates that are close, remediate them, mentor them, then send them to selection?

Regardless, they will be training each drill weekend they attend with the training team, and if that were the case, they can hone their deficiencies and rectify them.

Now, for example, one of those candidates, which is one of the best guys I have had the pleasure of working with, is pursuing a career path with 19th Group.

Just a question, how good are you at following instructions? You know, like those found in the stickies on internet forums or in the welcome message that you get? People who can't follow instructions don't usually last long in the SF Pipeline and not long on some internet forums either...

I can't remember when I said that, and as a general rule I believe what I said. However When we are talking ARNG there are two things that come into play... Funding, and Spaces.

Without going in to too much detail, OCO funding for ARNG Pay and Allowances has been slashed to nothing. The ARNG conventional units that used to be deployed were not home to use the Annual Training P&A $$. That $$ was never reprogrammed so therefore was available for use statewide. Now all those hooahs are back and doing their AT. Oh, and big Army has been shorting the ARNG for years to the tune of $20Mil ish in P&A tper annum hat they should be getting to pay for people to goto SFAS and SFQC. So what does that mean until this gets fixed? State G3s only have so much P&A to go around. So, in times where $$ is tight it's pure survival that some states may be a bit more "selective" in who they sent to SFAS. Combine that with the fact that the ARNG is doing a better job of getting guys off of AD. If a unit in a state is full, they are full. Again.... driving them to be more selective to conserve $$ and to avoid the asspain of having to get rid of a mistake.

ARNG SF was in a place where $$ was plentiful and we had vacancies. Now there is less $$ and less vacancies. In the end, if one unit is too painful to join and another is less so... let the free-market work for the best people. IF a State chain of command or a SF chain of command think that a unit is chronically understrengeth then they will look at that unit's internal processes. If they don't then eventually NGB will and the unit will be moved. This is NOT repeat NOT the case with A 2/20. The move had nothing to do with strength or SFREs. IL leadership had other reasons and wanted different force structure and IN has wanted an SF Company for YEARS so they made a trade.

Ther is no upside that I can see for a separate SF Company like A Co. having a non SFAS complet pax on the books.

[stevekoz]

Originally Posted by abc_123

Regarding getting released.... Yes technically you would need permission to split out for that weekend to attend the SFRA and then subsequent drills to train up for SFAS. Speaking from experience, its not going to be that big of a deal. A commander would have to be a huge dick to not allow you to split out to attend tryouts and a few months of train up prior to SFAS...and for what? Its not like you as a new(er) E4 in the unit will be mission critical. And chances are that it is good for his numbers to have you on the books.

If you are in the ARNG of the state where the unit is there will be even LESS chance of any issues. If for some reason you have issues, call the SF unit and they might be able to help work with your chain of command. But I can't see it coming to that.

It's been a Loooong time since A/2/20 dealt with REPs... and my memory goes back a ways now. Tried that when strength was an issue and ended up with a bunch of people hanging around that either kept putting of going to selection, failed selection etc. Non-quals that the unit had to then deal with and move on or otherwise get rid of. Going 11B or some other MOS first is best for the unit and the state. You get qualified in an MOS and help out some other units numbers. iF you get selected then great Xfer into the SF unit and go to the Q. If not, no paperwork for the SF unit or anyone else for that matter to do. You just go on back to drilling with your unit.

As an FYI, I am assuming that you know that A/2/20 is moving to IN. E date 1 SEP 16 IIRC. Camp Atturbury, IN.

Is there anyway to add release ability to my contract. I don't want to be 'that guy' who is looking to leave before I even know what I'm doing. But at the same time I'm focused and motivated and want to get an opportunity. I have been told that after OSUT I'll want a few months to train up and get some strength back that I'll need for the team events, get issued my gear, settle back into civilian life, as well as the unit. I have everything planned out that if I leave for OSUT in April I would have about 3 months to train and get back into SFAS ready shape for the SFRE that should happen around October (6 months from the next scheduled SFRE in April.)

[abc_123]

Originally Posted by stevekoz

Is there anyway to add release ability to my contract. I don't want to be 'that guy' who is looking to leave before I even know what I'm doing. But at the same time I'm focused and motivated and want to get an opportunity. I have been told that after OSUT I'll want a few months to train up and get some strength back that I'll need for the team events, get issued my gear, settle back into civilian life, as well as the unit. I have everything planned out that if I leave for OSUT in April I would have about 3 months to train and get back into SFAS ready shape for the SFRE that should happen around October (6 months from the next scheduled SFRE in April.)

If that question was for me, you're asking the wrong dude. Can't help you. My advise would be to talk to a recruiter. Or talk directly with someone at your unit of choice and they might be able to point you in the right direction.

www.nationalguardspecialforces.com is a good place to start.

If you contact the 20th SFG Recruiting det they will point you in the right direction, I've always found.

[stevekoz]

Originally Posted by abc_123

If that question was for me, you're asking the wrong dude. Can't help you. My advise would be to talk to a recruiter. Or talk directly with someone at your unit of choice and they might be able to point you in the right direction.

www.nationalguardspecialforces.com is a good place to start.

If you contact the 20th SFG Recruiting det they will point you in the right direction, I've always found.

Thanks. The recruiter told me it shouldn't be a problem to get released for the SFRE as long as I don't get any flags. And honestly, if I get flags, I don't think that's SF quality anyway.

I will contact the unit and the SFC that does the recruiting for the unit and ask them. It seems that as long as I'm 11B and don't have any flags against me that I must be allowed to attend the tryout if I put in for it.

I've also talked to a few guys over the interwebs and some buddies who are eiter AD qualified or going through the Q-course. and they have put me in touch with NG guys who've followed a similar course and had no problem getting the sign off to attend the SFRE.