Go Back   Professional Soldiers ® > At Ease > General Discussions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-22-2026, 16:46   #31
GratefulCitizen
Area Commander
 
GratefulCitizen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Page/Lake Powell, Arizona
Posts: 3,445
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor View Post
Without disclosing proprietary info, can you describe some of the AI-created inefficiencies so we can better understand some of the problems AI doesn't "understand"?
It started with a system called “ORION” (On-Road Integrated Optimization and Navigation).
Basically, a computer tries to optimize the order in which deliveries are made on a day to day basis in order to save time and distance for the driver.

Anyone who majored in computer science or mathematics and actually paid attention in class knows how difficult this problem is.
Optimizing a path of this type falls into a category known as an “NP-hard” problem (Nondeterministic Polynomial-time hard).

Ironically, what ORION is trying to do is the literal textbook example of an NP-hard problem.
It’s called the “traveling salesman” problem.

They try to get around this by using AI, which can adjust and learn based on previous experience.
AI has proved effective in this sort of thing in video games after enough tries (sometimes the number of tries can get very large).

But even if it succeeds, optimizing route path isn’t the same thing as optimizing a delivery day.
The computer doesn’t know when traffic patterns interfere, it can’t know that the load is clogged up by specific bulky packages which need to be delivered first, and it’s even shown that it can’t figure out that certain streets are one-way and you can’t take that route (add the problems associated with Google Maps, which it appears to use).

For awhile, management was pushing 90% compliance with the route as dispatched by ORION (can’t decide for yourself for more than 10% of the stops).
In theory, this would “train” the AI.

It never worked.

I’ve managed to train it some on my route by completely ignoring it and it seems to get smarter by copying my homework.
But this kind of defeats the purpose of the tool, because it only starts to work if I don’t need it.

Since we’re unionized, some drivers go full malicious compliance and follow ORION precisely, which results in a great deal of overtime pay.
The route never gets more time efficient.

In large hub operations, trailers are constantly being moved around the yard by shifter tractors after they are filled or emptied.
Actual human beings used to dispatch these shifter tractors.

Now, AI does it and tries to optimize for distance travelled by the shifter.
Again, distance traveled doesn’t optimize for time.

These are large trailers and everyone has to stop moving and wait when someone is setting up and backing a trailer into a parking spot or up to a bay door.
AI keeps sending all the shifters to the same place at the same time to save distance.

All this does is create massive traffic jams in a tightly packed yard with shifters, road tractors, and package cars waiting for a few units to take turns parking in the same area.
A human, or collection of humans allowed a degree of autonomy, would learn how to solve this problem (and used to do so).
__________________
__________________
Waiting for the perfect moment is a fruitless endeavor.
Make a decision, and then make it the right one through your actions.
"Whoever watches the wind will not plant; whoever looks at the clouds will not reap." -Ecclesiastes 11:4 (NIV)

Last edited by GratefulCitizen; 04-23-2026 at 00:36.
GratefulCitizen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2026, 05:54   #32
Badger52
Area Commander
 
Badger52's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Western WI
Posts: 7,031
Quote:
Originally Posted by GratefulCitizen View Post
Anyone who majored in computer science or mathematics and actually paid attention in class knows how difficult this problem is.
Optimizing a path of this type falls into a category known as an “NP-hard” problem (Nondeterministic Polynomial-time hard).

Ironically, what ORION is trying to do is the literal textbook example of an NP-hard problem.
First, FTR, glad you didn't go into another field for the GOV and end up abducted by aliens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GratefulCitizen View Post
A human, or collection of humans allowed a degree of autonomy, would learn how to solve this problem (and used to do so).
I have a friend who works for UPS doing some IT magic and, at our annual drink/solve world-problems rendezvous where a few of us old warhorses gather, would rail against the mandarins wanting to totally rely on this kind of AI stuff. He's a retired Army NCO of the "ask the guy on the ground" school. Now he shakes his head like a cowboy in the 1890's seeing the end of things.
__________________
"Civil Wars don't start when a few guys hunt down a specific bastard. Civil Wars start when many guys hunt down the nearest bastards."

The coin paid to enforce words on parchment is blood; tyrants will not be stopped with anything less dear. - QP Peregrino
Badger52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2026, 07:07   #33
Razor
Quiet Professional
 
Razor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 4,546
Quote:
Originally Posted by GratefulCitizen View Post
It started with a system called “ORION” (On-Road Integrated Optimization and Navigation).
Basically, a computer tries to optimize the order in which deliveries are made on a day to day basis in order to save time and distance for the driver...

Fantastic examples--thanks!
Razor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2026, 07:17   #34
Penn
Area Commander
 
Penn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,483
This company will hit the market with an IPO @$24/shs. https://www.he360.com/ My understanding is that the system incorporates AI.
Penn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2026, 06:10   #35
Badger52
Area Commander
 
Badger52's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Western WI
Posts: 7,031
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn View Post
This company will hit the market with an IPO @$24/shs. https://www.he360.com/ My understanding is that the system incorporates AI.
Interesting outfit.
__________________
"Civil Wars don't start when a few guys hunt down a specific bastard. Civil Wars start when many guys hunt down the nearest bastards."

The coin paid to enforce words on parchment is blood; tyrants will not be stopped with anything less dear. - QP Peregrino
Badger52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:53.



Copyright 2004-2022 by Professional Soldiers ®
Site Designed, Maintained, & Hosted by Hilliker Technologies