"Leave No Teacher Standing" - Page 8

**Bill Harsey** · 03-03-2004, 20:11

Ma'ams and Sirs, I'll have to re-read this entire thread again, a lot of traffic to soak up after tea time here. Please let me explain a single point in this post, Last Year in Oregon as the war in Iraq got under way, several schools in both Portland, Oregon and I think in Eugene also, let their kids attend, IN FULL SUPPORT OF, the anti war rallies. They got class credit for attending and participating in these events, These kids participated in the anti war demonstrations with the full support of their teachers. This was a well documented "happening" and was the topic of talk radio for quite some time after because many folks here thought letting the kids do this during school time with the support of publicly employed teachers was wrong. Back to the fire fight.

03-03-2004, 20:32

I figured I would put my .02 in since i witnessed one of these rallies on UNC-Chapel Hills' campus last year. My friend and I were riding through the main street on campus, Franklin Street, when we saw a gathering of anti-war folks in front of the post office. We immediately went back to our house and took our huge American flag off the wall and went back down to show our support of the troops and mainly to be a pain in their ass. First, we found out like many of you have said, they were given permission by their school to use that as a day to protest the war. They immediately asked to spark up a debate with us. They said, "the war is costing tax payers too much money" Seeing as how my friend and I both had jobs he replied,"Oh, you mean our tax dollars that are going to pay for your teachers that currently have an empty classroom." That was the end of the discussion. Second, channel 17 news came by to take statements from the anti-war protesters and then from friend and myself. Which interviews do you think they showed on that night's news? The college educated, working adult....or the high schooler that was allowed to skip school and make signs from statements they heard off of the liberal news? I guess I just answered that one.

SO

**Bill Harsey** · 03-03-2004, 21:26

So it wasn't just here...

CRad · 03-03-2004, 23:53

In my son's second grade class, his teacher used sending letters to soldiers in Korea as a chance to have a writing lesson. They wrote the letters in computer lab and practiced using different fonts, colors, and inserting pictures into documents. They were creative, thoughtful, and she also used it as an opportunity to show them where Korea was on the map and to tell them a little bit about the country.

It's hard for me to be down on the school system when teachers like her exist.

Solid · 03-04-2004, 02:04

Well, I said that if I was demonstrably wrong I'd unass the AO, and this is exactly what I'm doing.
Thank you very much for this spirited debate, I hope that I didn't offend anyone.
Have a good morning.

Solid
(the fat girl has left the building

)

myclearcreek · 03-04-2004, 15:02

My computer has been down for a few days, and look at all the fun I missed.

Several points:

Teacher training - there are many parents without formal training who are better natural teachers than those in classrooms with a framed certificate. One of my friends has seven children and has homeschooled for over 25 years. Her youngest child is 8 years old, her oldest 30. She is one of the most effective teachers I know, without an ounce of formal training. Her children are bright, productive, very social. My mother is a great teacher without a college education. My Dad was a wonderful teacher with one.

Socialization - In our homeschool co-op, there are over 300 children. Our local ISD has just over 350 children. There are a wider variety of activities available to my child outside public school than inside. Had I chosen private school rather than homeschooling, I would have been working a full-time job simply to pay the tuition and spend less time with my children, relying on other parents to help transport them to after-school activites, where I would arrive late (after work). We have Enrichment Classes on Fridays each Fall and Spring, which include both academics, sports, and fun. Chess club, swim team, basketball, and 4-H club are a few of the other opportunities. One of the private schools allows homeschoolers to play on their junior high football team.

Length of school day - When I withdrew my children from public school, the elementary principal assured me that I was doing the right thing for my children and that I could accomplish in 2 hours (3rd grade level for my youngest) what it takes them a full day to complete. The rest of their day is spent lining up, telling Johnny not to kick Sally, and preventing food fights, to name a few. Those basic manners are taught in most homes and can be reinforced by homeschool parents in outside social and family activites.

College admissions - RL, here is a website I created for our local group - it is not extensive, but serves their basic needs. Annually, I present a college-prep workshop for families with children in grades 8-12.

http://www2.nortexinfo.net/clearcreekranch/

Sacamuelas · 03-04-2004, 15:25

MCC/Bill/Eagle-
How long do you recommend in "class" time per day needs to be spent where the child has to be quiet and listen to instruction, work quietly without breaks or conversation, etc. ? ( Eagle has answered already in his prior post. He believes in a full 6-7 hour day just like the other kids it seems. )

I think that local Jr. High football team opportunity sounds great... It is good to hear that this option is available for you guys. I always think about the home S'ers not getting enough interaction with other regular school kids to keep in touch with "trends" and current "cool" things. (if that makes any sense) I can only imagine how much of a dork I would have been if my dad was my main influence in clothing or current "lingo". LOL Is that even an issue for you?

Do you think that the peer stigma of being homeschooled is an issue for parents to be concerned with as the child gets older ( late teenager/college age groups)? I am interested to hear the opinions on this. I admit that as a young pup, I used to have negative impressions of home schooled kids back then.

What are your thoguhts on an option where you homeschool the children up through elementary school (5th or 6th) and then enroll them in a school for the teenage years ? Would there be any benefit to this approach in your mind? Or is that specific time period (Jr. High/HS) the one you feel is the worst for kids in a school environment?

Just asking.. there will be no argument either way from me. Just your opinions wanted if you have time.

Thanks

NousDefionsDoc · 03-04-2004, 18:07

Lt. Col. Robert Corrow (USAF-Ret.) certainly had no intention of igniting the wrath of Vermont's teachers' union. He only volunteered to teach a course for free to Williamstown High School students because he loves kids and loves teaching. The course, entitled "Conflict in the Twentieth Century", is based on his career experience in the Air Force and as a United Nations war crimes investigator in Bosnia.

Corrow has a bachelor's degree in English and a master's degree in counseling. A native of Newport, he was a certified teacher at North Country Union before leaving for Viet Nam in the late 1960s. He is also a member of the Williamstown School Board.

From all accounts his students are excited about his course.

The Vermont National Education Association (VT-NEA), on the other hand, wants Corrow's out of the classroom. The union has filed a grievance against the school district and demanded binding arbitration, a process which in practice often means forced capitulation to union demands.

http://www.act60.org/volunteer.htm

NousDefionsDoc · 03-04-2004, 18:07

A legal group has filed a complaint with the Internal Revenue Service and the U.S. Justice Department alleging the nation's largest teacher's union has failed to file proper federal reporting and tax statements regarding its political activity.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=34435

NousDefionsDoc · 03-04-2004, 18:10

Recently, the National Education Association (NEA) published a guide aimed at combating the "Radical Right" on public education.

This guide is sweeping in its attempt to classify the so-called "Radical Right," identifying them as people who are illegitimately trying to influence education and culture in a negative manner.

The document demonstrates quite clearly how the NEA feels about conservatives. The document is filled with name-calling, ridicule, and accusation, and it displays an all-around shrillness that is difficult to ignore in quest of the small amount of substance contained therein.

http://www.mfc.org/pfn/97-11/nea.html

NousDefionsDoc · 03-04-2004, 18:12

That damn NEA is a plague and a pestilence on decent folks. If I was in the US, I would be home schooling too. All you folks that are doing home schooling - I salute you.

SALUUUTE!

**Roguish Lawyer** · 03-04-2004, 18:47

He's on a roll.

**Bill Harsey** · 03-04-2004, 19:48

Just got logged on, lot's of catch up to do. D-9, (Good logging road building machine by the way...spent lots of time driving one) GREAT post on "socialization" best analysis on that topic I've ever read. You will go far Sir. Sacameulas, Sir, I will do some figuring for you on the time question. Time needed seems to increase with age. What I've learned about public schools is that students learn to endure long periods of non-productive, non-learning time while nothing is getting done (dealing with the screw ups etc.), Home Schoolin' compresses the time needed to get same things done. Concerning "tapering into the system" Yes we are trying to do that but for example our nearest high school doesn't know from year to year what science classes are going to be there due to budget concerns. The public school system (Oregon)is breaking the taxpayers who are paying for all the stuff public education has bargained for and demanded. They seem to be running out of money for the class room, all this while collecting more taxes than ever before in the history of the state for the purpose of public school system. No matter how much they get, they need more. This is well documented in Oregon.

**Bill Harsey** · 03-04-2004, 19:51

NousDefionsDoc, I SALUTE YOU BACK, THANKYOU!!!!! When we meet the first round is on me. That goes for everybody else here. Will open separate "special" account in the morning.

**The Reaper** · 03-04-2004, 20:00

Quote:

Originally posted by Bill Harsey
Just got logged on, lot's of catch up to do. D-9, (Good logging road building machine by the way...spent lots of time driving one)

Sir William, the Junior:

Before you gat all lovey dovey with D-9, you might ask him how he got that name.

TR