MFF soon to be part of the Q course

[Old Dog New Trick]

I had to look that up Billy.

http://nsrdec.natick.army.mil/APBI/P...drop_FINAL.pdf

It would seem to me that you could teach a monkey to HAHO and all things "bad" happening, teaching someone to cut away and pull two handles isn't all that difficult.

You have the rest of your life to figure it out.

Someday, we're going to strap ourselves (whole team/squad/platoon) into a box and get slid off the ramp at any altitude and land softly on the ground. Completely computer controlled...

But I remember steel pots and helmet liners...

[MR2]

When I was attached to the ACE Board they had built a full-sized mockup "People Pod" for lapsing... Yes lapsing! There was all sorts of volunteers out of the 82d.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by MR2

When I was attached to the ACE Board they had built a full-sized mockup "People Pod" for lapsing... Yes lapsing! There was all sorts of volunteers out of the 82d.

Must have been the late 70's.

I was over there getting ready for something or other about that time and they had that pod with a big ass cargo chute on it and dummies strapped into what looked like race car seats.

They explained it was for air dropping non-airborne folks into a DZ. Me and the others just rolled our eyes.

[MK262MOD1]

Originally Posted by Billy L-bach

The MFFARAPS was selected with the Double Bag Static line capability being a REQUIRED component of the system.

...double bag static line.
Read that again: Double Bag Static Line.
We just committed about 30-50 million dollars over the next 10 years developing and preparing for the feilding of the MFFARAPS/RA-1 parachute and one of the game stopping design parameters was the requirement that the system could be jumped with a 'rope'

MFF qualification is not needed. Its purely a matter of measuring dick size with the USN and USAF. "We own the MFF school, why arent WE 100% MFF qualified?"

The USMC spent the better part of five years demonstrating that you dont need to have a MFF qualification to employ a DBSL capable system.
7th SFG proved it back in the 90's when they had support guys jumping the MC-5 out at Raeford DZ.


MFF is not a game stopper when you have a DBSL capability. We are spending money trying to qualify for a badge, what we are NOT doing is trying to figure out how to use our BRAND NEW parachute to meet a requirement and develop a capability. Smoke and Mirrors... we ALL need HALO wings because someone said so.

Maybe we should find someone that sat on the ARAPS selection board and see what they think about this silliness..................

A lot of great points Billy. I got a hands on with the new chute this week. It is a good system( at least I believe so ). We need to integrate and use it. Train ups for Non-MFF ODAs should use this system. DBSL

We need to stay proficient with rounds as well for the abilities they offer others. Can't teach it if you don't use it.

[longrange1947]

Originally Posted by Pete

Must have been the late 70's.

I was over there getting ready for something or other about that time and they had that pod with a big ass cargo chute on it and dummies strapped into what looked like race car seats.

They explained it was for air dropping non-airborne folks into a DZ. Me and the others just rolled our eyes.

They played with one in the early 70s as well. It was to keep a team together on a small DZ. During a test run with dummy and sensors, no one "survived" due to a hard landing. Yep, my choice for keeping a team together on infil.

[Dive08]

Update to this is they're sending a hand full of guys per class (sent a few to CDQC as well) but its far from 100%/mandatory - dont count on it

[glebo]

I hope so, it's not even a USASFC requirement...truly a SWC inspired ..."good idea"...

Last CoC though...same guy who ...nevermind...

[18C4V]

What's up with the hard on for guard guys who have hard slots? My TL went two months ago and was hemmed up for his physical for not having a correct stamp (the school house stated that our BN FS couldn't sign/stamp our physical). My TL was given one hour to go get a stamp that they would accept (which he got and they did).

[Eagle5US]

Originally Posted by 18C4V

What's up with the hard on for guard guys who have hard slots? My TL went two months ago and was hemmed up for his physical for not having a correct stamp (the school house stated that our BN FS couldn't sign/stamp our physical). My TL was given one hour to go get a stamp that they would accept (which he got and they did).

My buddy is the "new" DMO down there and they are riding him pretty hard on the physicals s/p training deaths so he reviews EVERY physical personally...and is also held responsible for the same.
As a side...your BN FS should know he cannot sign a dive physical anyway...must be signed by an HMO / DMO for CDQC.

[18C4V]

Originally Posted by Eagle5US

My buddy is the "new" DMO down there and they are riding him pretty hard on the physicals s/p training deaths so he reviews EVERY physical personally...and is also held responsible for the same.
As a side...your BN FS should know he cannot sign a dive physical anyway...must be signed by an HMO / DMO for CDQC.

I can't speak for the CDQC side, but for the MFF side we've had no issues. I sent 7 guys last year to MFFPC and no issue inprocessing with our stamp. This time, there was and the guy who gave my TL the "new stamp" didn't change one thing on the physical except give a "new stamp"

[Richard]

FWIW - in my time, our UWO physicals were signed off by the Group Surgeon but our MFF physicals required a Flight Surgeon's approval - it was a USAF FS in Europe where I went through MFF training while at Tölz and an Army FS over at the TMC servicing the Corps aviation assets while at Bragg for those attending the SFS course and our updates.

Richard

[bravo22b]

My apologies if this question has already been covered, but I didn't see it when I searched. Also, if this is sensitive, I can be contacted by .mil account.

It's looking like there is a possibility that we will be fielded the MFFARAPS, presumably as a substitute for the MFF capability that is specified in the LRSC MTOE but that will never be attained, at least not by a NG LRS company.

I've been asked to provide some sort of information on our needs, and one question that I'm having a hard time answering is what type of training will be required for someone who is already SL qualified to utilize the MFFARAPS in a static line employment? Is there already a course designed to award qualification, or is the qualification initially achieved through NET fielding? If anyone has any information on how this would work, it is greatly appreciated. PM me if you need my .mil email address.

Thanks in advance.

[Papa Zero Three]

Originally Posted by bravo22b

My apologies if this question has already been covered, but I didn't see it when I searched. Also, if this is sensitive, I can be contacted by .mil account.

It's looking like there is a possibility that we will be fielded the MFFARAPS, presumably as a substitute for the MFF capability that is specified in the LRSC MTOE but that will never be attained, at least not by a NG LRS company.

I've been asked to provide some sort of information on our needs, and one question that I'm having a hard time answering is what type of training will be required for someone who is already SL qualified to utilize the MFFARAPS in a static line employment? Is there already a course designed to award qualification, or is the qualification initially achieved through NET fielding? If anyone has any information on how this would work, it is greatly appreciated. PM me if you need my .mil email address.

Thanks in advance.

The short answer is yes...with some "buts". The transition train up is something that can/could be done at the unit once you have a core of qualified people in the unit to train those transitioning to the system, much like a JM course is run in house. We did this with the MC-5 system years ago and not too long ago myself and a co worker ran a double bag static line transition course for several non halo qualified teams on a similar but different system than the new RA-1.

Without getting into the weeds, a training concept for this was identified and written into the echelons above reality paperwork that is part of the fielding process and getting this capability added to the system. Now for the "Buts". There isn't a solidified POI (that I am aware of yet) along with other C2 issues that i wont get into here. There are several ways to conduct the course, the shortest being 10 days with no O2 and not over 10k MSL that will give you a day/night combat equipment qualification. You will have to have HALO JMs receive DBSL training and conduct the jumps until you can run a DBSL JM course and qualify existing SL JM's internally(one exists but this is another C2/POI issue). If you plan on going above 10kMSL your people will need to be chambered to conduct O2 operations. There are other logistical issues but these are most that concern the jumpers/JMs. I don't know how non SOF units will be directed to go about transitioning their people so take what I've said as possibly how it will happen (and highly likely to change from what I've described here) until you hear otherwise, but that should give you an idea of what lies ahead.

[bravo22b]

Originally Posted by Papa Zero Three

The short answer is yes...with some "buts". The transition train up is something that can/could be done at the unit once you have a core of qualified people in the unit to train those transitioning to the system, much like a JM course is run in house. We did this with the MC-5 system years ago and not too long ago myself and a co worker ran a double bag static line transition course for several non halo qualified teams on a similar but different system than the new RA-1.

Without getting into the weeds, a training concept for this was identified and written into the echelons above reality paperwork that is part of the fielding process and getting this capability added to the system. Now for the "Buts". There isn't a solidified POI (that I am aware of yet) along with other C2 issues that i wont get into here. There are several ways to conduct the course, the shortest being 10 days with no O2 and not over 10k MSL that will give you a day/night combat equipment qualification. You will have to have HALO JMs receive DBSL training and conduct the jumps until you can run a DBSL JM course and qualify existing SL JM's internally(one exists but this is another C2/POI issue). If you plan on going above 10kMSL your people will need to be chambered to conduct O2 operations. There are other logistical issues but these are most that concern the jumpers/JMs. I don't know how non SOF units will be directed to go about transitioning their people so take what I've said as possibly how it will happen (and highly likely to change from what I've described here) until you hear otherwise, but that should give you an idea of what lies ahead.

Papa Zero Three, thanks for the quick response and the information, it's very helpful. It's hard to articulate much to my higher without a concept of how something like this would be implemented, so this at least gives me an idea of how it could happen.