NYC Ground Zero Mosque - Page 7

Guy · 08-11-2010, 23:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiseman

Con Edison owns half the property. Could someone buy the property from them? I'm sure there are more than enough Investment Bankers whose friends may have died on Sept 11th.

They signed a lease w/an option to buy.

Stay safe.

T-Rock · 08-12-2010, 01:34

Glenn Beck: The Moderate Imam Behind 'Ground Zero Mosque'

Religious freedom is one thing, but should we investigate Feisal Abdul Rauf's intentions?

> http://video.foxnews.com/v/4307739/b...behind-ground-

ETA: YES Glenn, if you're reading, Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf has told us his intentions. He did so in his book entitled "A Call to Prayer from the World Trade Center Rubble: Islamic Dawa in the Heart of America Post 9/11."

> http://www.911familiesforamerica.org...ufWTCcover.jpg

http://article.nationalreview.com/43...rew-c-mccarthy
http://www.aina.org/news/2010089110149.htm

Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf has lied about his commitment to religious dialogue (al-Taqiyya) - According to the book "A Call to Prayer from the World Trade Center Rubble: Islamic Dawa in the Heart of America Post 9/11," his purpose is to place restrictions on freedom of speech and openly advocate Sharia, which is incompatible with our Constitution. The Hanbali jurist "Taqi ad-Din Ahmad ibn Taymiyyah" who wrote "The Madinan Way," was considered a Sufi, and as an advocate of Sharia, it seems Imam Rauf shares his views.

> http://www.911familiesforamerica.org...ufWTCcover.jpg

> http://www.americanthinker.com/print...ufi_jihad.html
> http://www.google.com/#hl=en&safe=ac...97fd7bb03aef60
> http://www.google.com/#hl=en&safe=ac...d7f7252633376c

~al-Nasikh wal-Mansoukh~

T-Rock · 08-13-2010, 00:57

Quote:

Question: What does it mean to separate religion from state in Islam?

Abdul Rauf:…What is happing in the Muslim world after the fall of the Ottoman Empire and the establishment of the secular state, that the traditional relationship between state and religious institutions were subject to a separation, which resulted in a reaction that generated Islamic movements wanting to erect an Islamic state in the Islamic world. So if we watch history that after Rashidun Caliphate (Rightly Guided Caliphate) there was a form of separation between government and religious institutions that was represented by [Muslim] jurisprudence and since the Muslims on a personal level are required to follow the prophet (peace be upon him) on all aspects of life and conduct as permissible through a societal level as well. For that, we collectively believe that the state that was erected by the prophet in Medina was the ideal model for an Islamic state. The challenge today in the Islamic world is how do we accomplish this in our current era.

The challenge I was referring to is this; how do we call for the principles and standards that the prophet (peace be upon him) used to build the Islamic state in Medina. The challenge we have today is how do we accomplish this while keeping the prophet’s methodology in our current changing times. This challenge was an issue that the scholars and Caliphs had to face throughout the Islamic history, which resulted in the creation of several Islamic schools of thought with multiple views that are viewed equally.

…an Islamic state can be established in more than just in a single form or mold; it can be established through a kingdom or a democracy. The important issue is to establish the general fundamentals of [Islamic] Shariah that are required to govern. It is known that there are sets of standards that are accepted by [Muslim] scholars to organize the relationships between government and the governed.

Read the rest here > http://www.shoebat.com/blog/archives/393

TOMAHAWK9521 · 08-13-2010, 07:52

I never understood why the WTC was never rebuilt, either as it was or else some other design, after all this time. I heard many talking about how doing so would only upset the Muslims and encourage further violence. And now we have the power-hungry little Napoleanic runt, mayor-for-life saying we need to embrace diversity (oh that word) and not upset the muslims by not allowing them to build their monument of victory. I wonder if the Saudis offered him a nice little payoff like they tried with Rudi?

Some might consider this mosque as the alternative to the never-to-be-completed "Victory Over America Palace in Baghdad.

Sigaba · 08-13-2010, 09:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by TOMAHAWK9521

I never understood why the WTC was never rebuilt, either as it was or else some other design, after all this time.

There's a lot of money to be made studying, planning, discussing, and then not building a commercial site.

T-Rock · 08-13-2010, 20:42

…at the Ramadanadingdong dinner no less…

Quote:

Obama stands up for Ground Zero mosque

By ABBY PHILLIP | 8/13/10

President Barack Obama on Friday endorsed a controversial plan to build a mosque and Islamic center just blocks from Ground Zero in Manhattan, despite the strong objections of conservatives, civic groups and those who lost loved ones in the September 11 attacks.

“Ground Zero is, indeed, hallowed ground,” Obama said at a White House dinner celebrating the Muslim holiday of Ramadan. “But let me be clear: as a citizen, and as president, I believe that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as anyone else in this country. That includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances.”

Having steered clear of the controversy for weeks, Obama took on opposition to the mosque directly — a move that many other Democratic lawmakers had been hesitant to do in the face of highly emotional appeals against its construction.

But polls indicate the issue could be a high-voltage third rail for politicians who support the project: a recent CNN poll found that 68 percent of those surveyed did not approve of building a mosque so close to where the World Trade Center towers fell, killing more than 2,000 people.

In recent weeks, White House press secretary Robert Gibbs had deflected questions on the issue, insisting it is “a matter for New York City and the local community to decide.” But Obama had been criticized for being slow to weigh in on the controversy, especially in light of his past statements in support of religious freedom and tolerance for Muslims in the United States.

In his speech Friday, Obama called for sensitivity with respect to developing in lower Manhattan, but cautioned against drawing comparisons between mainstream Islam and the ruthlessly violent ideology of al Queda, which he said is a “gross distortion” of the faith.

Source > http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0810/41060.html

How are the radicals violating the tenets of their faith Mr. President ?

rdret1 · 08-13-2010, 21:25

http://www.aolnews.com/surge-desk/ar...que%2F19593492

Another story of the annointed one supporting the mosque. This is another indicator of his total disconnect with the american people as well as what he truly supports.

MVS2 · 08-13-2010, 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by TOMAHAWK9521

I never understood why the WTC was never rebuilt, either as it was or else some other design, after all this time. I heard many talking about how doing so would only upset the Muslims and encourage further violence. And now we have the power-hungry little Napoleanic runt, mayor-for-life saying we need to embrace diversity (oh that word) and not upset the muslims by not allowing them to build their monument of victory. I wonder if the Saudis offered him a nice little payoff like they tried with Rudi?

Some might consider this mosque as the alternative to the never-to-be-completed "Victory Over America Palace in Baghdad.

Clashing architect/engineering egos and labor union problems was the reason a few years ago.

ZonieDiver · 08-13-2010, 21:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by TOMAHAWK9521

I never understood why the WTC was never rebuilt, either as it was or else some other design, after all this time. I heard many talking about how doing so would only upset the Muslims and encourage further violence. And now we have the power-hungry little Napoleanic runt, mayor-for-life saying we need to embrace diversity (oh that word) and not upset the muslims by not allowing them to build their monument of victory. I wonder if the Saudis offered him a nice little payoff like they tried with Rudi?

Some might consider this mosque as the alternative to the never-to-be-completed "Victory Over America Palace in Baghdad.

I would say... "If we haven't even started ANYthing yet, it can't really be THAT important to us.". Can it??????

**The Reaper** · 08-13-2010, 22:20

Well, NY played a big part in putting him into office.

Hope they enjoy the results, no big surprise to me.

TR

akv · 08-13-2010, 23:10

I was also an advocate for rebuilding the towers even bigger and better, yet many NY'ers said they wouldn't want to work in the new towers, some felt it was now sacred ground and merited a memorial, others frankly felt the new buildings would incur greater risk of repeated attacks, and life wasn't worth it. The bulge bracket banks seemed to concur since several began building new facilities spread out across smaller buildings across the NY/NJ area.

The Ground Zero Mosque is emotional for many of us, IMHO allowing it to be built is a sign of strength not weakness. Americans take pride in the freedoms rights and protections of our constitution. An issue like this mosque tests the extent of our resolve and if we remain true to our laws and beliefs. Are we what we say we are or are we willing to subjectively bend or ignore the constitutional rights we hold sacred when they apply to issues or groups, we might find distasteful or morally reprehensible. Groups like the KKK, NAMBLA, and the American Nazi Party are disgusting to most of us, yet we acknowledge their rights to assemble under the protections of our constitution, and their rights to private property, until they break the law in which case they deserve and warrant vigorous prosecution. What would folks here think of a prominent Pro Life advocate or a anti-drug DA who advocated an abortion or leniency when their teenage daughter came home pregnant or was busted for dealing drugs? This issue however, is greater than the social stigma of hypocrisy, this issue is an acid test on whether or not these protections and freedoms we claim, are mere populist lip service or in fact further demonstrated proof of the legitimacy and impartiality of the laws inherent to our American culture.

Folks mentioned why don't some investment bankers just buy the building, that is a solution, but even if altruistically wealthy buyers could be found, instead it might be better for us all if at $100 million a pop several mosques are built. If we assume those behind the mosque have nefarious motives, at the end of the day the money is buying a building. Instead $100 million could be used to buy a lot of IED's, weapons, technology, and training for AQ cells and insurgents.

This issue is greater than religious tolerance, the stance of our enemies on tolerance and freedom are clear. This was a pass/fail test of the strength of the American Constitution, and I believe we passed.

Finally,while the owners of this mosque have every legal right to build it and worship in accordance with their beliefs, America will be watching their conduct.
If they are cavalier and abrasive towards the community, the legal victory will rapidly atrophy into a Pyhrric one. Middle of the road Americans who differentiate between radical Islam and the religion as a whole, might find these beliefs challenged and the resulting environment considerably less tolerant and hospitable towards Muslims in America.

dualforces · 08-14-2010, 00:05

To me, this does seem like a grand diplomatic move as painful as it's short term intentions seem to be publicly.

Strategically it makes sense from that POV.

T-Rock · 08-14-2010, 01:21

Quote:

The Ground Zero Mosque is emotional for many of us, IMHO allowing it to be built is a sign of strength not weakness.

I choose not to live inside the kettle, but hey, I’m batshit crazy like that

- IMHO, a house divided cannot stand…

It’s all about Sharia…

> http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...2917532871834#

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFOnv3xiKPU

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQLIa...eature=channel

> http://cicentre.net/wordpress/?s=Ikhwan&x=13&y=11

> http://globalmbreport.com/

> http://www.thomasmore.org/qry/page.t...h=06&year=2010

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmRbum9x0nU

> http://ibloga.blogspot.com/2010/08/o...t-pushing.html

> http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...build-mosques/

“For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies”

Liquid Gold

TOMAHAWK9521 · 08-14-2010, 04:42

You gents have brought up very valid answers and well thought out responses to my questions. Thanks.

I suppose I should try being optimistic about this whole controversy.
1. We proved our Constitution is still the best governing document in the world.

2. The next time we get hit we won't have to waste lives, money or logistics to go overseas to kick them in the nuts to get our point across.

Richard · 08-14-2010, 05:17

May be of interest to some - not so much to others.

Michael R. Bloomberg is a former Wall Street mogul with a passion for the rights of a private property owner. He is a Jew whose parents asked their Christian lawyer to buy a house and then sell it back to them to hide their identity in an unwelcoming Massachusetts suburb. And he is a politician who regards his independence as his greatest virtue.

That potent combination of beliefs and history, those closest to Mayor Bloomberg say, has fueled his defense of the proposed Muslim community center in Lower Manhattan — a defense he has mounted with emotion, with strikingly strong language and in the face of polls suggesting that most New Yorkers disagree with him.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/13/ny...v&ref=nyregion

Doesn't sound to me as if the good Mayor yearns to return to those goode olde dayes.

And so it goes...

Richard's $.02