Staying awake - Page 7

mugwump · 03-19-2007, 07:18

Necropost, but what the hey...

In the better living through chemistry category, Provigil (modafinil) is the heat. You are just...alert. Freaky. Not that scalp-tingling, scratchy-eyeball, fuzz-brained thing that usually happens when you try to work for 24 hours straight. (We sometimes wait and wait and wait for a piece of a project to come to us and then all of a sudden we're on the critical path and umpteen teams are waiting on our output. It's pretty rare that things get that critical, but it does happen.)

There are Air Force protocols on the 'net for it's use...hours 36-48 usually add carefully timed doses of caffeine as well and it's really important not to overdo the caffeine. Eli Lilly has a drug in the works that reputedly lets you go 72 hours while being alert.

Sionnach · 03-19-2007, 08:56

Sunflower seeds used to do it for me on long overnight trips. You need a lot of water for that, as well, which adds to the effect.

I believe it works similarly to the pebble technique. You're brain doesn't want you to go to sleep with foreign objects in your mouth.

letinsh · 03-21-2007, 10:14

+1 on the sunflower seeds. When I was still in school, I'd finish a week of finals, then hop in the car and drive from MI to CO straight. I found energy drinks would keep me awake physically, but not mentally.

The exercise of trying to orient the seed in my mouth so I could actually crack the shell kept my mind alert and focused.

05-17-2007, 16:57

'Fatal Familial Insomnia', as referenced in the Peter Tripp link http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/...ftwork/96742/2 , doesn't suggest that not sleeping can be fatal. The FFI wiki, among other sources suggests that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_Familial_Insomnia the insomnia is an effect of plaque buildup in the brains of people with the rare genetic disorder, which eventually kills. But the insomnia itself isn't the cause of death. This guy here apparently didn't sleep for 30 years: http://www.thanhniennews.com/feature...0&newsid=12673

As far as long periods without sleep go, the 'Rank 14' run in the online game 'World of Warcraft' required six weeks of sitting in front of a computer with ~4-6 hours of sleep per week (tuesday mornings). Most people managed to sneak in a few hours every now and then. I could write a good bit about the emotional effects on the people who completed it, and the distress of having done all that for 'pixels on a screen'. However, most of the negative effects seem to be more from 'what I was staying up that long to do' than 'I stayed up for that long'--with the exception of the immediate physical problems associated with not being able to leave the PC for more than 15-20 minutes at a stretch (diet/lack of exercise). My calorie intake was low, inconsistent, and not exactly 'health food', so I think I ended up losing ~7-10kg and a lot of muscle.

I heard about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyphasic_sleep recently, but simply haven't had the time to test it. Everyone I know who has tried to do it has failed during the adjustment period, and the 'nap times' are apparently very rigid, so there aren't too many jobs out there which are conducive to that type of sleep schedule.

One summer in highschool, I had a 9-5 job with six hours of commuting, I ended up getting about 5 hours of sleep a night and two fifteen minute naps during the day--child labor laws in MD mandate 'breaks', and I had nothing else to do. This seemed to work perfectly for me--I woke up feeling better after those naps than I often do after 6-8 hours of sleep.

I have more trouble staying awake when there's nothing to do, and the suggestions in this thread will hopefully keep me from getting dropped from SFAS for falling asleep at an inappropriate time. I read in Mr. Couch's book about a few candidates who were booted for falling asleep at the end of nav exercises while waiting to be picked up. This might be a problem for me, as I tend to just fall asleep when I run out of stuff to do, so I'm listening intently!

Edit: Oops, sorry for necroposting

**The Reaper** · 05-17-2007, 17:02

We generally do not rely upon Wikipedia as a reference here, unless we personally know that material to be correct.

Long shot for you getting to SFAS, I would not get too far ahead of myself.

TR

05-17-2007, 19:18

The first wiki, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_Familial_Insomnia is just about as well-documented as wikis get. The 'external link' to http://www.afiff.org/index.php?newlang=english appears to be legitimate, it is an Italian foundation devoted to prion diseases. The 'References' section contains a 'Case Study' with references to journal articles, as well as a link to a peer-reviewed journal article and a cited, but not linked journal article. This article does not appear to be sufferring from the problems that are often associated with wikipedia.

In my opinion, the second wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyphasic_sleep is a good introduction to a subject which is at best "fringe", and at worst, some combination of painful, dangerous, and stupid. It mostly links to blogs by people who claim to follow the schedule, and is low on real, well-researched, peer-reviewed science. It does suffer from the problems with accurracy common to wikipedia, but does not appear to suffer from vandalism, or deliberate distortion on the part of the writers.

To its' credit, because there is very little in the way of peer-reviewed research into the subject, it does contain the header "This article or section may contain original research or unverified claims.", as well as links to both sides of the (amatuerish) debate. I also stated that I have no experience with it and offerred the article as a jumping off point for discussion. I guessed that if anyone would be interested in ways of reducing sleep requirements in the long term to roughly 3 hours a day, it would be the people here.

As stated, the rigidity of the schedule, the difficulty in acclimation, and issues with adequate tissue repair time probably keep this from being seen as anything more than a curiousity. I expect that drugs such as caffeine, modafinil, and various amphetamenes will remain the 'stay awake and alert' methods of choice for a long time to come.

I assert that these two wikipedia articles serve the intended purpose of all encyclopedia-type articles--sourced, informative, unbiased introductions for people with little to no familiarity with the subject matter.

Back to reading.

Edit: grammar

**Team Sergeant** · 05-17-2007, 19:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Distorted

The first wiki, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_Familial_Insomnia is just about as well-documented as wikis get. The 'external link' to http://www.afiff.org/index.php?newlang=english appears to be legitimate, it is an Italian foundation devoted to prion diseases. The 'References' section contains a 'Case Study' with references to journal articles, as well as a link to a peer-reviewed journal article and a cited, but not linked journal article. This article does not appear to be sufferring from the problems that are often associated with wikipedia.

In my opinion, the second wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyphasic_sleep is a good introduction to a subject which is at best "fringe", and at worst, some combination of painful, dangerous, and stupid. It mostly links to blogs by people who claim to follow the schedule, and is low on real, well-researched, peer-reviewed science. It does suffer from the problems with accurracy common to wikipedia, but does not appear to suffer from vandalism, or deliberate distortion on the part of the writers.

To its' credit, there is very little in the way of peer-reviewed research into the subject, and it does contain the header "This article or section may contain original research or unverified claims.", as well as links to both sides of the (amatuerish) debate. I also stated that I have no experience with it and offerred the article as a jumping off point for discussion. I guessed that if anyone would be interested in ways of reducing sleep requirements in the long term to roughly 3 hours a day, it would be the people here.

As stated, the rigidity of the schedule, the difficulty in acclimation, and issues with adequate tissue repair time probably keep this from being seen as anything more than a curiousity. I expect that drugs such as caffeine, modafinil, and various amphetamenes will remain the 'stay awake and alert' methods of choice for a long time to come.

I assert that these two wikipedia articles serve the intended purpose of all encyclopedia-type articles--sourced, informative, unbiased introductions for people with little to no familiarity with the subject matter.

Back to reading.

So you're a doctor of medicine now?

The funny thing about wikipedia is that it now quotes itself.

I attempted to help wikipedia with the Special Forces page and they (civilians) NEVER answered.

wikipedia is not a credible source of information, period.

TS

**The Reaper** · 05-17-2007, 21:44

It must be tough to be stuck in college, and already know everything.

TR

Dub · 05-18-2007, 06:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Distorted

As far as long periods without sleep go, the 'Rank 14' run in the online game 'World of Warcraft' required six weeks of sitting in front of a computer with ~4-6 hours of sleep per week (tuesday mornings). Most people managed to sneak in a few hours every now and then. I could write a good bit about the emotional effects on the people who completed it, and the distress of having done all that for 'pixels on a screen'. However, most of the negative effects seem to be more from 'what I was staying up that long to do' than 'I stayed up for that long'--with the exception of the immediate physical problems associated with not being able to leave the PC for more than 15-20 minutes at a stretch (diet/lack of exercise). My calorie intake was low, inconsistent, and not exactly 'health food', so I think I ended up losing ~7-10kg and a lot of muscle.

O God your one of the W.O.W. kids.

x SF med · 05-18-2007, 11:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Distorted

...As far as long periods without sleep go, the 'Rank 14' run in the online game 'World of Warcraft' required six weeks of sitting in front of a computer with ~4-6 hours of sleep per week (tuesday mornings). Most people managed to sneak in a few hours every now and then. I could write a good bit about the emotional effects on the people who completed it, and the distress of having done all that for 'pixels on a screen'. However, most of the negative effects seem to be more from 'what I was staying up that long to do' than 'I stayed up for that long'--with the exception of the immediate physical problems associated with not being able to leave the PC for more than 15-20 minutes at a stretch (diet/lack of exercise). My calorie intake was low, inconsistent, and not exactly 'health food', so I think I ended up losing ~7-10kg and a lot of muscle. ...

Just stick to your video games, ok? The men who have posted about sleep deprivation have done it in real world life or death situations, you did it for a video game. Got it?

swatsurgeon · 05-21-2007, 19:15

distorted: training....training....training.....training....t raining
You train to a level of increased ability. This is what we do to remain sharp and be able to operate on the human body after being up and active for 40-50+ hours. My guess is that the QP's train the same when it comes to endurance and remaining sharp during the performance of their duties...just an educated guess.
No one just goes out and runs a marathon.......you train up to it. My longest stretch was 4 days 3 nights of non-stop operating, patient care and more operating. No medal for that , just good patient outcomes without complications. Smart, maybe or maybe not; necessary, yes. Sound familiar QP's??

distorted: Most of the 'crap' available about sleep deprivation is done by people never trained to perform at peak levels for prolonged periods of time, they just analyze data of those not in peak performance and who can and do kill people when they are tired.

ss (someone who has been there and done that)

BoyScout · 05-21-2007, 20:25

Forgive me, slight hi-jack: Distorted try to play less WoW. It's overly addictive as far as gaming is concerned. I play it, heck in my alliance "Guild" it's called "World or Warcrack." I use it to talk to my step-sister and I play no more than 3 hours a day and that's when I don't have to work. 1-2 hours unless I use it to work woth my daughter.

Back to topic: +1 for sunflower seeds, atomic fireballs, sweet-hots, other hot candy and when I can get it, Ruoffza (spelling?) an Indian drink that gives a lot of energy for a breif period but the effects can last longer.

Gerbermk2 · 05-22-2007, 14:58

I stayed all night at the edge of a marijuana garden once, the fear of being discovered by the 2 mexican nationals tending it was enough to keep my eyes wide open all night... If I would have had to stay one more night I would have went down and asked them to brew me some coffee.

7624U · 05-23-2007, 06:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Distorted

This might be a problem for me, as I tend to just fall asleep when I run out of stuff to do, so I'm listening intently!

Edit: Oops, sorry for necroposting

Do some pushup's and sign this red card

SOCOM8721 · 05-23-2007, 06:37

February, Fort Ord Combat Leaders Course (pre-ranger) torrential rain, 42 degrees in a tight perimeter. The R.I. got pissed as hell when we all started laughing cause someone starting snoring - roof raising snoring.

Some people can sleep in any conditions...