02-17-2011, 20:33
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#76
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Occupied Pineland
Posts: 4,701
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I've had it with the PC BS. Victim hell - she did everything wrong that she possibly could have. The first lesson any intelligent person learns is avoidance. This is as blatant a case as has ever existed of the victim sharing a considerable measure of responsibility for the assault. She is an experienced world traveler with a high degree of cultural awareness. She knew the risks and chose to ignore them. She deliberately put herself in harm's way. She was thrown out of country and chose to return "for the story". She chose to disregard warnings, failed to employ basic personal security measures, went into the thick of an emotionally charged mob, and paid a price for it. A little situational awareness, some common sense, simply avoiding the situation in the first place, and she would have been relatively safe. It's time to acknowlege that bad things happen to people who do stupid things. And stupid people need to accept some responsibility when their stupidity gets them in trouble. It's an aspect of Darwin.
__________________
A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.
~ Marcus Tullius Cicero (42B.C)
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Peregrino is offline
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02-18-2011, 01:37
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#77
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Guest
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Interesting poll found online...
18.65 percent of the respondents were women while the majority, 81 percent, were men.
99 percent of respondents are well aware of the existence and prevalence of sexual harassment.
70 percent know that sexual harassment can take place anywhere (schools, street, home and at work).
From this site:
http://egypt.unfpa.org/english/Stati...arassment.aspx
Another quote from an interesting article:
"In a frequently referenced survey in 2008, nearly two-thirds of Egyptian men admitted to sexually harassing women – and half blamed the women themselves. Eight in 10 Egyptian women say they’ve suffered such harassment, with half saying it occurs daily – yet less than 3 percent have reported abuse to the police.
And according to more recent, and even more astonishing, data from The Population Council, an international nongovernmental organization, nearly 80 percent of Egyptian boys and men ages 15-29 agreed that a woman who is harassed deserves it if she had dressed provocatively. Perhaps even more disturbing, 73 percent of similar-aged females in the survey also claimed that immodestly dressed women deserve any abuse they endure."
http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/...en-blame-women
Last edited by cszakolczai; 02-18-2011 at 01:40.
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02-18-2011, 04:43
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#78
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NorCal
Posts: 15,370
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brush Okie
I didnt read all the posts. IMHO She was stupid and irresponsable. Typical media person (male or female) think they are immune from harm even in the most dangerious enviorment. Saying all that she did not deserve to be raped.
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Reading the posts and linked articles would have told you she was sexually assaulted while surrounded by a demonstrating mob and not raped.
Richard 
__________________
“Sometimes the Bible in the hand of one man is worse than a whisky bottle in the hand of (another)… There are just some kind of men who – who’re so busy worrying about the next world they’ve never learned to live in this one, and you can look down the street and see the results.” - To Kill A Mockingbird (Atticus Finch)
“Almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.” - Robert Heinlein
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Richard is offline
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02-18-2011, 10:13
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#79
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Auxiliary
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NORMAL550GIRL
Just the opposite, in fact, but in my own warped way.
It's just plain stupid to suggest that all men are savages, unable to control their behavior.
So, therefore, it's just plain stupid to suggest that a woman controls men's behavior by how she acts or dresses.
And I disagree that nobody is blaming the victim, unless I'm really not reading plain English correctly, quite a few people on this board are.
We are mixing concepts ---responsibility and fault are two different things. LL bears the responsibility for the choices she made that put her in a bad place at a bad time.
The fault of the assault is squarely on the shoulders of the men who did it.
It doesn't matter how pretty she is, how she was dressed, etc. The fault for the behavior is still on the guys who did it.
Even a hooker has the right to say no.
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The way a woman dresses or acts doesn't control a man's behavior, and ideally a lady should be able to conduct herself as she sees fit.
But if you wander into a lion's den reeking of deer's blood, don't be surprised if he tears you to pieces.
Seems like most here are blaming the stupidity of her actions, and not Logan personally. No one deserves such treatment, regardless of if their own actions set them up for it.
__________________
"Many current Army regulations and policies place insufficient emphasis on individual, crew, and unit marksmanship. If the fighting Army does nothing else, we must be able to hit our targets. Conversely, if we do all other things right, but fail to hit and kill targets, we shall lose."
--Army Vice Chief of Staff General John Vessey
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WholeManin2010 is offline
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02-18-2011, 10:31
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#80
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: OCONUS...again
Posts: 4,702
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Some of us have spent alot time in the AO; more time then I care too remember however....
DO NOT! Assume, the "rights" women enjoy here in the USA are tolerated, over there.
Stay safe.
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“It is better to have sheep led by a lion than lions led by a sheep.”
-DE OPPRESSO LIBER-
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Guy is offline
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02-18-2011, 10:43
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#81
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 568
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NORMAL550GIRL
Perhaps stupidity is a subjective concept, then.
I wouldn't have done what Logan did, but then again, I wouldn't jump out of an airplane or go into combat (even if I could) or many other highly risky behaviors.
Which is not the same as saying I think those things are stupid. I, personally, just wouldn't take the risk.
Logan apparently wanted, not just a good story, but a great story. So she put herself in a very dangerous position.
QPs on this board didn't want to just be soldiers, they wanted to be elite soldiers. As a result, they are often in highly dangerous situations.
Honestly, I don't see the difference. Again it wouldn't be my choice, but it doesn't make it stupid.
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People really need to stop comparing what this woman did to a soldier going into combat. We train, plan, rehearse for our operations which we conduct with weapons, body armor, personal protection equipment, while pulling security, maintaining situational awareness and making the best decisions we can that we know have life-or-death consequences - including the decision to not blindly keep marching forward in the face of overwelming odds. We place ourselves in dangerous situations because we have to, yet we operate with the purpose of mitigating the risk to our force and to our mission the best we can.... do you see the difference now?
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Every man has three characters: that which he shows, that which he has, and that which he thinks he has.
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head is offline
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02-18-2011, 10:50
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#82
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 568
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NORMAL550GIRL
Not comparing what she does for a living to what a soldier does for a living -- apples and oranges.
I was comparing her choices to those choices of a person who wants to go the extra mile and be the best -- in whatever field.
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And her choices were stupid!
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Every man has three characters: that which he shows, that which he has, and that which he thinks he has.
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head is offline
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02-18-2011, 10:53
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#83
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Auxiliary
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NORMAL550GIRL
Perhaps stupidity is a subjective concept, then.
I wouldn't have done what Logan did, but then again, I wouldn't jump out of an airplane or go into combat (even if I could) or many other highly risky behaviors.
Which is not the same as saying I think those things are stupid. I, personally, just wouldn't take the risk.
Logan apparently wanted, not just a good story, but a great story. So she put herself in a very dangerous position.
QPs on this board didn't want to just be soldiers, they wanted to be elite soldiers. As a result, they are often in highly dangerous situations.
Honestly, I don't see the difference. Again it wouldn't be my choice, but it doesn't make it stupid.
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Huge difference between going to war armed to the teeth, with unparalleled training, versus wandering into a angry, rioting crowd, vastly outnumbered, with no means of defense whatsoever, in a country with a harsh reputation for blatant sexual assault.
And for what it's worth, I'd like to think that the sacrifices undertaken by servicemembers are well worth the risk - perhaps even moreso than an Emmy or a bigger salary.
__________________
"Many current Army regulations and policies place insufficient emphasis on individual, crew, and unit marksmanship. If the fighting Army does nothing else, we must be able to hit our targets. Conversely, if we do all other things right, but fail to hit and kill targets, we shall lose."
--Army Vice Chief of Staff General John Vessey
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WholeManin2010 is offline
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02-18-2011, 10:55
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#84
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Area Commander
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,696
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IMO, and it’s just that, she did what she did for whatever reason and is now left to deal with the consequences of an action that resulted from those decisions. At the end of the day, there are many women throughout the world that are sexually molested in one way or the other and are simply left to have to deal with it. Regardless of whether or not she wanted to go place herself there in order to obtain the best story or if she was told to be there, she is now left to deal with the circumstances that have been dealt her. I think that if she wasn’t who she is, this thread possibly wouldn’t even be here. In the end, when all is said and done, she will still be left with the consequences of that day, regardless of her reasons.
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Sohei is offline
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02-18-2011, 10:57
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#85
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Auxiliary
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by head
People really need to stop comparing what this woman did to a soldier going into combat. We train, plan, rehearse for our operations which we conduct with weapons, body armor, personal protection equipment, while pulling security, maintaining situational awareness and making the best decisions we can that we know have life-or-death consequences - including the decision to not blindly keep marching forward in the face of overwelming odds. We place ourselves in dangerous situations because we have to, yet we operate with the purpose of mitigating the risk to our force and to our mission the best we can.... do you see the difference now?
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LOL, left my computer for a sec before submitting my reply - we seem to have said almost the same thing.
__________________
"Many current Army regulations and policies place insufficient emphasis on individual, crew, and unit marksmanship. If the fighting Army does nothing else, we must be able to hit our targets. Conversely, if we do all other things right, but fail to hit and kill targets, we shall lose."
--Army Vice Chief of Staff General John Vessey
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WholeManin2010 is offline
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02-18-2011, 11:02
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#86
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 568
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WholeManin2010
LOL, left my computer for a sec before submitting my reply - we seem to have said almost the same thing.
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Yep, there's always got to be abort criteria and a "go-to-hell" plan - her crew had neither. Not saying she's at fault, of course not, but she didn't stack the deck in her favor.
ETA: or maybe they had a plan and it just wasn't executed, overwelmed by the circumstances... I don't know, I wasn't there.
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Every man has three characters: that which he shows, that which he has, and that which he thinks he has.
Last edited by head; 02-18-2011 at 12:30.
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head is offline
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02-18-2011, 11:26
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#87
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NORMAL550GIRL
Not comparing what she does for a living to what a soldier does for a living -- apples and oranges.
I was comparing her choices to those choices of a person who wants to go the extra mile and be the best -- in whatever field.
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As a female, former soldier, and former sex crimes investigator, I am begging you..please.just.stop. You completely missed head's point.
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Blue is offline
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02-18-2011, 11:49
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#88
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Quiet Professional (RIP)
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Carriere,Ms.
Posts: 6,922
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NORMAL550GIRL
Not comparing what she does for a living to what a soldier does for a living -- apples and oranges.
I was comparing her choices to those choices of a person who wants to go the extra mile and be the best -- in whatever field.
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I'm sorry guys but I'm with NG550 on this,her points are well taken......  I believe to some degree we are missing them........ I'm with you girl on this one.......... 
Big Teddy
__________________
I believe that SF is a 'calling' - not too different from the calling missionaries I know received. I knew instantly that it was for me, and that I would do all I could to achieve it. Most others I know in SF experienced something similar. If, as you say, you HAVE searched and read, and you do not KNOW if this is the path for you --- it is not....
Zonie Diver
SF is a calling and it requires commitment and dedication that the uninitiated will never understand......
Jack Moroney
SFA M-2527, Chapter XXXVII
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greenberetTFS is offline
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02-18-2011, 12:09
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#89
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RIP Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Ozarks
Posts: 10,072
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Prayers out to her, no matter.
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"There you go, again." Ronald Reagan
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Dusty is offline
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02-18-2011, 12:16
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#90
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: HQ - SSPL
Posts: 156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty
Prayers out to her, no matter.
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There's the BLUF.
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My Location: Always Moving
My Reason: Always the Same
"Expect the best, prepare for the worst" - Zig Ziglar
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Defend is offline
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