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Old 06-06-2014, 11:42   #61
cbtengr
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There is no gunshot wound to put a band aid on, these do gooder's ran for office to make a difference in peoples lives, well they are and they are making a real mess out of it.

What motivates you Chili? You seem to be all over the place. You act as if you have some sort of axe to grind. I may be wrong but I do not believe that you are going to be all that happy in the military. Right now you live in a world where if you are not happy you can say the hell with it and move on to something else. You are making a commitment to the military and it's one that many of us who have served take very seriously, I guess I do not see that level of commitment in you. I wish you well though.
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Old 06-06-2014, 12:51   #62
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Originally Posted by Chili_Wango View Post
While that is disturbing, it's difficult to include factors when discussing production; i.e. advancements in technology. If you make a machine that can increase the output of products by 30%, the worker isn't necessarily working any harder, it's the machine. So why should the worker be rewarded? Then again the poor fellow is most likely be making jack shit in the first place while is CEO rakes in millions.

Like I said in my previous post, I find it difficult to demand that my CEO give me money, money he earned; but how can he/she justify hoarding the wealth why giving everyone else the scraps?
You're leaving out the risk factor. Take my company as an example. We're 4 years in business now. I put every penny I could into getting the business off the ground. Yes, I bootstrapped it. The silicon valley model is a whole different game.

I took no salary and lived off savings the first two years (Year 2 I was in Afghanistan). Year three I took a salary that was roughly 1/4 of what I could have earned on the open market. This year I am making slightly less than 1/2 of what I can make working for someone else. At the rate I am going, it will be year 6 before I even come close to salary parity. BUT, if I can continue to grow the company, there will come a point where I will be able to make MUCH more than I would working for someone else. Yes, if we have the profits, I will take a very large salary. Much more than anyone else in the company.

But I am also the one that took the risk. Everything I own is on the line and if the company fails, the impact to me personally will be very very severe. I'm happy to share in the wealth. I've never had an employee make the same or less than I do. But when the day comes that I can afford to make my salary right, shouldn't I?

Now let's talk about management other than a founder. When you are talking about a Senior Manager, a VP, a Director or a C-Suite occupant, you are talking about someone that the person taking all the risk (me) has delegated the authority and responsibility for running a portion of the operation. If they screw up, my personal future is impacted in a big way. A really bad decision by that manager could very well cause me to lose everything and go bankrupt. I want to have someone I can trust in that position. Joe Snuffy just isn't an option. I want to attract the best person I can possibly afford for that seat. I also want that person to have a vested interest in the company so that they are incentivized to do the very best job they can. The best way to accomplish both ends is in the form of bonuses, options and compensation packages where the amount is tied directly to the company's results. If the company loses money, they lose money (to a point). If the company makes money, they make money. Once again, they are being compensated for the risk they are taking. Bear in mind those managers are taking lower salaries in return for the bonuses.

The other side of this is the worker. Very few workers have direct impact on the overall welfare of the company. The bigger the company, the less impact the individual worker can have. Yes, they can impact the operations, but if the company has good checks and balances in place, typically they can't impact the well being of the company.

So my question is: After putting the difference in risk in perspective, do you still believe that the compensation levels should only be slightly different between the two roles?

The only (major) difference related to this discussion between the example of my small company and the big boys that are traded publicly is the ownership. I own my company and shareholders own the public company. Other than that, there isn't that much of a difference in the reasoning behind compensation plans. Yes, the plans are different, but the reasons for the incentives are still the same. (For you purists out there, I'm ignoring the senior managers that have incentives through M&A)

Last edited by (1VB)compforce; 06-06-2014 at 13:14.
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Old 06-09-2014, 01:51   #63
Chili_Wango
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Upon further reflection on this subject I realized a few things:

Many people, including those in this forum, have fought to secure the rights that citizens have; others died. To see folks complain about their situation and not do anything to improve their situation is a slap to the face. You give them the opportunity and they squander it.

The same goes for socialism; Americans fought and died to secure the freedom of choice; not to have the government make them for you.

I also wish to articulate one idea that I failed to earlier: it's not capitalism that failed; it was some folks that have. I simply think some take advantage of the system; which happens, this isn't a perfect world. I think this is a failing in the culture, on equal parts of the public and it's leadership.

The past two discussions I've had were meant to spark interesting discussions; perhaps of my own ignorance, that failed. I'm going to do what sluggos do best now: post less and read more.

Thanks,

CW
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Old 06-20-2014, 08:07   #64
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MA $11/hr

And now this from the Bay State -

Quote:
The House on Wednesday approved legislation raising the minimum wage to $11 over three years and authorizing a 31 percent increase in the hourly wage for tipped workers in Massachusetts.

The vote was 124-24, and comes after the proposal cleared the Senate last week 35-4. Gov. Deval Patrick, who will receive the bill after additional procedural votes, also favors an increase in the wage floor.
Why am I not surprised that he's holding a Socialist Alternative paper?


Continued
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Old 06-20-2014, 08:55   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chili_Wango View Post
Upon further reflection on this subject I realized a few things:

Many people, including those in this forum, have fought to secure the rights that citizens have; others died. To see folks complain about their situation and not do anything to improve their situation is a slap to the face. You give them the opportunity and they squander it.

The same goes for socialism; Americans fought and died to secure the freedom of choice; not to have the government make them for you.

I also wish to articulate one idea that I failed to earlier: it's not capitalism that failed; it was some folks that have. I simply think some take advantage of the system; which happens, this isn't a perfect world. I think this is a failing in the culture, on equal parts of the public and it's leadership.

The past two discussions I've had were meant to spark interesting discussions; perhaps of my own ignorance, that failed. I'm going to do what sluggos do best now: post less and read more.

Thanks,

CW
Chili it sounds like your critics share your opinion even though they don't recognize it. Your arguments are lucid, don't let anyone shut you out.
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Old 06-20-2014, 09:59   #66
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Originally Posted by DIYPatriot View Post
And now this from the Bay State -



Why am I not surprised that he's holding a Socialist Alternative paper?


Continued
Socialism is great, until you run out of other peoples money.
The Iron Lady......


Watch the union jobs leave the state..... this will be amusing and it will be the beginning of the end for the SEIU.
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Old 06-20-2014, 10:38   #67
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The fallacy is thinking that you can legislate prosperity. Simple math - can't be done.
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Old 06-20-2014, 12:20   #68
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The fallacy is thinking that you can legislate prosperity. Simple math - can't be done.
Who says the socialist left thinks?
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Old 06-20-2014, 13:40   #69
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The fallacy is thinking that you can legislate prosperity. Simple math - can't be done.
They don't like simple math, that's why they came up with common core math.
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Old 06-20-2014, 14:05   #70
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FWIW: http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/...pinion_LEADTop

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