Are we at war with Islam?

[tk27]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Musharraf is doing a far better job, IMHO, than anyone likely to replace him.

Sir, How do you think the 2007 election is going to play out? What is your take on Musharraf's opposition? What do you think the US government positition will be?

[Black Beard]

Thanks for the insight! I don't at all expect there is or will be a simple and expedient solution to this problem. It's clearly, quite a tangled web with decades of history backing it up, I do understand that. It just seems that some days we're taking "one step forward and......, and it gets frustrating, (more so i'm sure for those on the ground fighting it!). To fully understand it is asking way too much, but I just wanted some opinion from those much more educated in it than myself. Thank you both again, and Reaper I will take your advice. I try not to take things at face value, and try to research what I hear, because I know a lot probably doesn't hold water right out of the gate. Thanks again Gentlemen!! BB

[Team Sergeant]

Such a beautiful, tolerant, benevolent, religion…….(Am I the only person in the world that holds islam synonymous with terrorism?)

Team Sergeant
"UNBELIEVER"
"INFIDEL"


Qaeda urges non-Muslims to convert to Islam

DUBAI (Reuters) - Al Qaeda called on non-Muslims especially in the United States to convert to Islam and abandon their 'misguided' ways or else suffer, according to a video tape posted on a Web site on Saturday.

The speaker was identified as Azzam the American, also known as Adam Yahiye Gadahn -- an Islamic convert from California wanted for questioning by the FBI and who U.S. authorities believe to be involved in an information campaign for al Qaeda.

"To Americans and the rest of Christendom we say, either repent (your) misguided ways and enter into the light of truth or keep your poison to yourself and suffer the consequences in this world and the next," Gadahn said in English.

He appeared in the video dressed in a white turban and seated in front of a computer and books.



Al Qaeda's second-in-command Ayman al-Zawhari made a brief statement at the beginning of the tape -- dated September 2006 -- urging viewers to listen carefully to the message, entitled: "An Invitation to Islam".

http://today.reuters.com/news/articl...src=rss&rpc=22

[casey]

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

….(Am I the only person in the world that holds islam synonymous with terrorism?)

Team Sergeant
"UNBELIEVER"
"INFIDEL"

TS, I thougth we had an agreement: you do the odd days - I do the even...

Kuffar T

[incommin]

I look at what Muslim radicals are doing in the name of Islam and I think about history and the Spanish Inquisition. Has any religion been free of individuals who haven't done terrible things in the name of their religion? Can you be at war with an idea or faith? Or are we at war with a group of people who are using an idea or faith? Protestants and Catholics have gone to war against each other on numerous occasions. That doesn't make either religion bad. People are bad! Do you blame a gun that launches a round that kills someone or do you blame the person who pulled the trigger? I am a Baptist. We have nuts within my religion too.

There is no simple answer. Painting a whole religion as evil isn't an answer. Are the Muslim soldiers now serving in the US military evil? Were the Muslim soldiers I served with evil?

Jim

[kgoerz]

Muslim/Islam Religion teaches the young from the start hate and destruction of other religions and the west. Not everywhere but it is the Majority. The Mainstream Muslim’s are the fanatics not the other way around. That entire region would be ten times worse off then Africa if it wasn't for the Oil they have. If we ever get off our buts and come up with an alternate Fuel Source we will definitely be on the wining side.

[Monsoon65]

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

Such a beautiful, tolerant, benevolent, religion…….(Am I the only person in the world that holds islam synonymous with terrorism?) ......

Team Sergeant
"UNBELIEVER"
"INFIDEL"

I read this article today, and remembered reading the stories from a few days ago about the Fox reporters that were rolled up in Gaza and forced to convert to Islam.

Someone on the radio called it, "Religion from the barrel of a gun" and I had to agree.

[incommin]

Originally Posted by kgoerz

Muslim/Islam Religion teaches the young from the start hate and destruction of other religions and the west. Not everywhere but it is the Majority. The Mainstream Muslim’s are the fanatics not the other way around. That entire region would be ten times worse off then Africa if it wasn't for the Oil they have. If we ever get off our buts and come up with an alternate Fuel Source we will definitely be on the wining side.

Is it the radical Wahhabi sect pushing this or all sects????? I think the majority of Muslims just want to live in peace and raise their families. They could care less about spreading Islam and the destruction of other religions in other countries.

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by incommin

Is it the radical Wahhabi sect pushing this or all sects????? I think the majority of Muslims just want to live in peace and raise their families. They could care less about spreading Islam and the destruction of other religions in other countries.

incommin,

A must read to really understand what we face today. I found you the best "source" I could.

TS

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RS21...20Wahhabism%22



CRS Report for Congress
Received through the CRS Web
Order Code RS21695
Updated January 25, 2006
The Islamic Traditions of
Wahhabism and Salafiyya
Christopher M. Blanchard
Analyst in Middle Eastern Affairs
Foreign Affairs, Defense, and Trade Division
Summary

The terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, and subsequent investigations of these attacks have called attention to Islamic puritanical movements known as Wahhabism and Salafiyya. The Al Qaeda terrorist network and its leader, Osama bin Laden, have advocated a message of violence that some suggest is an extremist interpretation of this line of puritanical Islam. Other observers have accused Saudi Arabia, the center of Wahhabism, of having disseminated a religion that promotes hatred and violence, targeting the United States and its allies. Saudi officials strenuously deny these allegations. This report1 provides a background on Wahhabi Islam and its association to militant fundamentalist groups; it also summarizes recent charges against Wahhabism and responses, including the findings of the final report of the 9/11 Commission and bills relevant to this issue in the second session of the 109th Congress. It will be updated periodically.

Background on Wahhabism
Definitions. “Wahhabism” generally refers to a movement that seeks to purify the Islamic religion2 of any innovations or practices that deviate from the seventh-century teachings of the Prophet Muhammad and his companions. In the West, the term has been used mostly to denote the form of Islam practiced in Saudi Arabia and which has spread recently to various parts of the world. In most Muslim nations, however, believers who adhere to this creed prefer to call themselves “Unitarians” (muwahiddun) or “Salafiyyun” (sing. Salafi, noun Salafiyya). The latter term derives from the word salaf meaning to “follow” or “precede,” a reference to the followers and companions of the Prophet.

Some Muslims believe the Western usage of the term “Wahhabism” unfairly carries negative and derogatory connotations. Although this paper explains differences in these terms, it will refer to Wahhabism in association with a conservative Islamic creed centered in and emanating from Saudi Arabia and to Salafiyya as a more general puritanical Islamic movement that has developed independently in various places in the Islamic world.

History of Wahhabism.

Wahhabism is a puritanical form of Sunni Islam and is practiced in Saudi Arabia and Qatar, although it is much less rigidly enforced in the latter. The word “Wahhabi” is derived from the name of a Muslim scholar, Muhammad bin Abd al-Wahhab (1703-1791). Frustrated by the moral decline of his society, Abd al-Wahhab denounced many popular beliefs and practices as idolatrous. Ultimately, he encouraged a “return” to the pure and orthodox practice of the “fundamentals” of Islam, as embodied in the Quran and in the life of the Prophet Muhammad. In the eighteenth century, Muhammad bin Saud, founder of the modern-day Saudi dynasty, partnered with Abd al-Wahhab to begin the process of unifying disparate tribes in the Arabian Peninsula. Since the foundation of modern Saudi Arabia in 1932, there has been a close relationship between the Saudi ruling family and the Wahhabi religious establishment.

Wahhabism in Saudi Arabia Today. With the establishment of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, Wahhabism gained new ground and was used as the official basis for determining laws and conduct in Saudi society. Wahhabism is the basis for practices such as the segregation of the sexes, the prohibition of the sale and consumption of alcohol, a ban on women driving, and numerous other social restrictions. Wahhabism also has shaped the Saudi educational structure, and Saudi schoolbooks generally denounce teachings that do not conform to Wahhabist beliefs.5 The puritanical and iconoclastic philosophies reflected in this sect historically have resulted in conflict with other Muslim groups. Wahhabism opposes most popular religious practices such as saint veneration, the celebration of the Prophet’s birthday, and practices associated with the mystical teachings of Sufism. In September 2005, the State Department again designated Saudi Arabia as a “Country of Particular Concern” under the International Religious Freedom Act “for particularly severe violations of religious freedom.”

According to the State Department’s 2005 International Religious Freedom Report on Saudi Arabia, in spite of efforts by some senior Saudi government officials to promote tolerance of other religions and steps to remove some intolerant material from textbooks, members of the Shi’a Muslim minority continue “to face political and economic discrimination,” and non-Muslim groups are not granted freedom of worship, whether public or private.6 Harassment of citizens by Wahhabist religious police reportedly increased during 2005.

Political and Religious Factors
What Is Salafiyya? As noted above, among adherents in general, preference is given to the term “Salafiyya” over “Wahhabism.” These terms have distinct historical roots, but they have been used interchangeably in recent years, especially in the West.

Wahhabism is considered by some Muslims as the Saudi form of Salafiyya. Unlike the eighteenth-century Saudi roots of Wahhabism, however, modern Salafi beliefs grew from a reform-oriented movement of the early twentieth century, which developed in various parts of the Islamic world and progressively grew more conservative. In line with other puritanical Islamic teachings, Salafis generally believe that the Quran and the Prophet’s practices (hadith) are the ultimate religious authority in Islam, rather than the subsequent commentaries produced by Islamic scholars that interpret these sources.7 Salafis also generally maintain that they are “the only [Muslim] group that will be saved on Judgment Day.”8 Salafiyya is not a unified movement, and there exists no single Salafi “sect.”

However, Salafi interpretations of Islam appeal to a large number of Muslims worldwide — in Africa, Asia, North America, and throughout the Middle East.

The Use of Violence. According to a number of scholars, the use of violent jihad9 is not inherently associated with puritanical Islamic beliefs. Among certain puritanical Muslims — be they self-described Salafis or Wahhabis — advocacy of jihad is a relatively recent phenomenon and is highly disputed within these groups. Some scholars date the ascendancy of militancy among Salafis to the 1980s war of resistance against the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. The war against the Soviets gained wide support throughout the Muslim world and mobilized thousands of volunteer fighters.

Radical beliefs spread rapidly through select groups of mosques and madrasas (Islamic religious schools),10 located on the Afghanistan-Pakistan border, which were created to support the Afghan resistance and funded primarily by Saudi Arabia. Similar U.S. and European funding provided to Pakistan to aid the Afghan mujahideen also may have been diverted to fund the construction and maintenance of madrasas. Following the war, Jihadist Salafis with ties to the Afghan resistance denounced leaders of countries such as Saudi Arabia and Egypt as “apostates” and as vehicles for facilitating Western imperialism. The Afghan Taliban group also emerged from this network of institutions. Jihadist Salafi groups such as Al Qaeda continue to advocate the overthrow of the Saudi government and other regimes and the establishment of states that will sustain puritanical Islamic doctrine enforced under a strict application of shari’a or Islamic law.

Osama bin Laden and the Al Qaeda Terrorist Network.

The Al Qaeda terrorist network arose in the early 1990s, directly out of the radical Salafi Jihadist is intended to polarize the Islamic world into two clearly delineated factions: between the umma (Islamic community) and those regimes which are closely allied with the United States and the West.11 Attacks inside Saudi Arabia, in particular, have aimed to undermine the Saudi ruling family, to expose its allegedly “misguided” or insufficient dedication to Wahhabi Islam, and to jeopardize its protectorship of Mecca and Medina, Islam’s holiest cities. Since the 1990s, Al Qaeda has called for a war against the United States, alleging that “U.S. crimes against Islam” were part of a “Zionist-Crusader” plot intended to annihilate Muslims.12 Many Islamic scholars, including some Wahhabi leaders, have condemned the September 11 attacks against civilians as having no roots
in the Islamic religion and view Bin Laden as a hijacker and a usurper of their religion.13 Bush Administration officials have echoed this sentiment, noting that the United States has “an interest in the voices of the moderates, the people who do not want their religion stolen away from them by extremists like Osama bin Laden.”

Although the majority of Salafi adherents do not advocate the violence enshrined in Bin Laden’s message, this ideology has attracted a number of followers throughout the Muslim world. Analysts note that some receptive groups are drawn to the anti-Western political messages preached by Bin Laden and his organization, despite the fact that these groups may hold different religious beliefs. Some experts have cautioned against “homogenizing” these groups and organizations into a monolithic entity.

[lrd]

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

Such a beautiful, tolerant, benevolent, religion…….(Am I the only person in the world that holds islam synonymous with terrorism?)

Team Sergeant
"UNBELIEVER"
"INFIDEL"

....

http://today.reuters.com/news/articl...src=rss&rpc=22

From the Counterterrorism Blog: http://counterterrorismblog.org/2006...elude_to_1.php

Counterterrorism Blog
The "Azzam" Threat: A prelude to Future Jihad in America
By Walid Phares
PS: This is a short version posting. The longer version will be posted later.

The video tape issued by al Qaeda’s “as-sahhab” production, in which Ayman Zawahiri introduces Jihadist Adam Gahdan to the world as a senior speaker to the American people on behalf of the movement, should be taken seriously. Not necessarily at the level of detecting the next Terror attack but at the level of understanding this prelude to Future Jihad both in America and within the West. I wasn’t surprised at all by the 45 minutes elaboration by convert Gahdan regarding all of the issues he raised. For “Azzam al Amrikee” is the clearest specimen of Jihadism’s second generation within the US, in as much as the 7/7 videos revealed the type of future Jihadists for Great Britain’s second generation. However, when one would listen carefully to the taped video, you’d find a treasure of knowledge and indicators for the current state of thinking of al Qaeda and its ideologues. In short it is a sample of what is on the mind of Salafi Jihadists for the United States and the West. Following are few of the issues I noted:

1) The hand behind the message

In short, Azzam’s videotaped message is indeed “American.” Experts have heard it in US and Canadian cities and internet is flowing with it. Whether Gadahn was reading from a prompter or not –and I believe he was with great skills- I tend to believe that such a speech –rather than being dismissed as mere propaganda- is a message coming to us from what’s already inserted inside America, which leads me to the second point

2) Who is it destined to?

It is basically addressed to those who will carry a “Jihad in America,” possibly asserting Adam Gahdan as their leader. Also, this is a very intelligent move to pierce the linguistic shield of America’s media and reach US citizens directly, as a way to spread confusion at least among those who have a hazy understanding of the Jihadists.

3) The ideological platform

In short, the “Azzam” video reconfirms clearly, in an English language that academic translators won’t be able to distort, that al Qaeda’s movement worldwide and in the United States is seeking total annihilation or conversion of the enemy: American and other democracies.

4) Argumentation tactics:

The “speech writer,” emulating many commentators on al Jazeera or al Manar, hopes to rally many among those who “hate Bush and Blair” but stops short of stating that Jihadism will hate all future US Presidents and British Prime Ministers “if they do not convert.” He reminds us of the Crusades, Inquisition, Hiroshima, and killings in Iraq and Afghanistan. Obviously, the “writer” skips the Genocides of Sudan, and the massacres of Algeria, the Kurds, Shiites perpetrated by Salafists or Baathists.

5) The enemies of Jihad in America

Sensationally but not unexpectedly, he “name” a number of intellectual-enemies in this country: Daniel Pipes, Steven Emerson, Robert Spencer and Michael Spencer. Rarely Jihadi Terrorists at this high level media exposure named symbols of their enemy’s intelligentsia. And in addition to “experts” named in the tape, Gadahn goes on a ferocious attack against American “Tele-Evangelists” and their media, showing the other type of foes al Qaeda is very upset with.

6) The “friends” of al Qaeda?

“Azzam” names “sympathetic” personalities for whom he has messages for action; He asks journalist Seymour Hirsh to “reveal more” than what was published in a New Yorker article on the War: Obviously an open call by al Qaeda to M Hirsch to resume the attack against the US War on Terror. Then “Azzam” turn to two British journalists and thank them for their “admiration and respect for Islam” encourage them to do the final step: Convert. He names British MP George Galloway and journalist Robert Fisk. But more troubling in Gadahn’s tape was his direct call to Jihadists within the US Armed forces to work patiently till the time comes and they should continue to aggregate while escaping the surveillance of their military authorities. This theme, which I covered briefly in Future Jihad, is of great concern to US national security. The “Azzam” speech brings further concerns as to the credibility of this threat.


7) The Al Qaeda offer: Conversion or fire

“Azzam”’s mission in this tape was to deliver a message. His bottom line is this: We –the Jihadists- have you cornered everywhere and you are not going to win this war. His central message is typically Jihadic: “Surrender, convert or the fire:” Meaning war on Earth, all of it, and Hell fire after death.

****

This fascinating and revealing taped-speech bring the American public even closer to what lays ahead for this generation and the next one as long as the Jihadist ideology is spreading inside America and worldwide.

****

Dr Walid Phares is a Senior Fellow with the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies and a visiting Fellow with the European Foundation for Democracy. He is the author of Future Jihad: Terrorist Strategies against America.

By Walid Phares on September 2, 2006 7:28 PM

[incommin]

TS,

Thanks for the post. Here is what I understand.

1. There are radical Muslims that want to turn time back to the 7th century when Islam controlled everything between Spain and Iraq.

2. Islamic clerics, all over the world, hate the influences of the west and the impact they are making on Islamic cultures. There have been some clerics that have stated words to the effect that "Islam is the religion of the one true god so Islam should be the religion of the world".

3. Religious fanatics that are willing to die for their religion are the most dangerous enemy one can face. And sleeper cells within a religion will be very hard to find.

4. Loss of power and influence is strong motivation for fighting.

5. Islam wants to convert others but does not want its believers to be converted.

6. Religious nuts of any religious faith are dangerous.

Having said all that, are we fighting against a whole religious faith or fringe nuts within that faith?

Jim

[Peregrino]

Despite Christian practices, especially from the Middle Ages through the Post-Reformation, the Bible does not exhort its adherents to "Convert, Enslave, or Kill" non-believers. The Koran does. Practicing Islamics tend to take the Koran literally. FWIW - Peregrino

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by incommin

TS,

Having said all that, are we fighting against a whole religious faith or fringe nuts within that faith?

Jim

Jim,

I've made up my mind concerning islamic ideology.

I'll ask you, why did the islamic people attack the United States on 9/11? Why were there millions dancing in the streets after these attacks?

Like you I would like to think its a few fanatics we're facing. I've little doubt its much more than that.

TS

Omar Ahmad
Co-founder of the Council on American-Islamic Relations

President and CEO of Silicon Expert Technologies.
A Palestinian who grew up in a refugee camp in Jordan.


"Those who stay in America should be open to society without melting, keeping Mosques open so anyone can come and learn about Islam. If you choose to live here, you have a responsibility to deliver the message of Islam ... Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faiths, but to become dominant. The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth."

[Jack Moroney (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Peregrino

Despite Christian practices, especially from the Middle Ages through the Post-Reformation, the Bible does not exhort its adherents to "Convert, Enslave, or Kill" non-believers. The Koran does. Practicing Islamics tend to take the Koran literally. FWIW - Peregrino

Absolutely. When the lion lays down with the lamb it is because he is just not ready to eat. This religion was spread by the sword and has been maintained by the box cutter. The 1.2 billion adherants are being duped by those that want to co-opt their religion and I see very few that are standing up to turn in their brethern who advocate the conversion or death of the infidels. Just my opinion.

[7624U]

Originally Posted by Jack Moroney

Absolutely. This religion was spread by the sword and has been maintained by the box cutter.

+2

That made my day