Wuhan Coronavirus

[Badger52]

Originally Posted by mugwump

I’m bringing all my remaining PPE to Madison tomorrow...400 masks is about a ten minute supply. They’re working with scarves over their faces.

Scarves.

Safe journey.

[InTheBlack]

Originally Posted by Penn

ITB

Which would be a point of departure using the inherent qualities of COV-2 as a base on which to create a new novel virus that capitalizes the “effective binding to human cells” that COV-2 exhibited.
It would be an immediate point of interest to any Bio-weapons researcher. In that sense, imo, intentionally constructed and released.

The Scripps experts are saying that it is SO GOOD that humans could not reasonably have designed it. Do you think the Scripps people have any reason NOT to be truthful about any data indicating human design?

[InTheBlack]

The geopolitics is a necessary discussion, but can it be a new thread? Let's reserve this one for the medical data & self-preservation actions we need to take.

Not sure if I can still "safely" go to the store to get something, if I think I might need it in the next month. Can't really project further than that, stores ought to be closed in a month anyway.

I consider my wife at risk not only for over 60, but she had a collapsed lung w/ chest tube - 30 years ago, car accident. Lots of fractures in her ribs (flail injuries) so now I notice she breaths shallowly when at rest. OTOH she does lots of aerobics & runs. History of unstoppable coughing with chest colds, but has not had one for... decades?

[Penn]

ITB

The Scripps experts are saying that it is SO GOOD that humans could not reasonably have designed it. Do you think the Scripps people have any reason NOT to be truthful about any data indicating human design?

Your deflection does not address the issue.

Apparently, COV2 has a wonderful ability to attach to human cells. If Bio-weapons experts understands the importance of that unique trait, why would they not investigate and seek to enhance that wonderful killer, making it even more ruthlessly indiscriminating?

And further, what makes you think that a breakthrough may not have occurred? Primates are known tool makers, Homo Sapiens particular so. Removing that possibility of altering a pathogen is shortsighted.

[WarriorDiplomat]

Originally Posted by InTheBlack

The Scripps experts are saying that it is SO GOOD that humans could not reasonably have designed it. Do you think the Scripps people have any reason NOT to be truthful about any data indicating human design?

Humans do not have to invent any disease and that is not how we think at least the GB's that I grew up admiring and served with but.....they would research it and if they see it is capable of infecting humans etc.....they then begin testing as the potential for a bio weapon and simultaneously develop a treatment they could control which would give them the on and off switch for it......all they had to do was research its properties and behaviors and perhaps help its binding properties along to evolve its contagious nature and there you could potentially have it.

You must understand that the people whom are members of this board spent some of us our entire careers in the world of shadows and knowing things that some would call conspiracies as facts. Some here just wanted to shoot people in the face but myself the geopolitics and shadowy conspiracies many times reveals the underlying causes was the intellectual challenge I sought. The overkill of fear around the world smells of the opportunity nations enemies are salivating over....are people sick and some dying? yes of course it would not have an effect if it had no effect but is ot as dramatic as the media and the politically motivated responses around the world??? No the real issue is not survivability it seems it is for our nation exposure of poorer hygiene habits than we thought we had....so where else are we weak and what will the outcome of this be for western civilization?

[InTheBlack]

Originally Posted by Penn

ITB


Your deflection does not address the issue.

Apparently, COV2 has a wonderful ability to attach to human cells. If Bio-weapons experts understands the importance of that unique trait, why would they not investigate and seek to enhance that wonderful killer, making it even more ruthlessly indiscriminating?

And further, what makes you think that a breakthrough may not have occurred? Primates are known tool makers, Homo Sapiens particular so. Removing that possibility of altering a pathogen is shortsighted.

I'm weighing the two possibilities. Humans can back-calculate and postulate how something could be designed, by nature or humans -- but it still might be beyond human capability to actually DO it.

Would a human engineered virus have some "fingerprints?" -- if so the Scripps people looked found nothing.

Of course our people at Ft Detrick are probably way ahead of everyone, and they are not going to say, yet.

I do agree that China has an advantage -- they are in the restart phase of their economy, and in a position to sell to the whole world. So speculation on origins makes no difference to the geopolitics.

For future, the Feds should create warehouse space in which companies can stockpile emergency goods without paying rent or inventory tax. When needed, Govt pays usual price plus markup based on how long the goods have been idle instead of being sold immediately (ie lost opportunity costs). No price gouging.

EDIT: also a means for companies to have idle manufacturing equipment, or design for quick changeover -- without paying extra tax etc on it.

[Penn]

ITB

So speculation on origins makes no difference to the geopolitics.

There is no speculation on origin. The Wahun Virus is Chinese in Origin. That is not a racist statement, but a geographical fact.

[WarriorDiplomat]

Originally Posted by InTheBlack

I'm weighing the two possibilities. Humans can back-calculate and postulate how something could be designed, by nature or humans -- but it still might be beyond human capability to actually DO it.

There is an in between option you have ignored now and that is the fact that humans can study a virus not yet infecting large groups of people and simply help it spread under the ideal conditions...again the Chinese did not have 1 not 2 but 8 solutions to deal with it in next to no time perhaps even before it left there borders.

Would a human engineered virus have some "fingerprints?" -- if so the Scripps people looked found nothing.

If the Scripps people were looking for indicators of an abnormal biology that suggests laboratory interference then of course there would be some unusual pathologies however again see the above.


Of course our people at Ft Detrick are probably way ahead of everyone, and they are not going to say, yet.

I do agree that China has an advantage -- they are in the restart phase of their economy, and in a position to sell to the whole world. So speculation on origins makes no difference to the geopolitics.

It absolutely does make a difference and has many implications one being the shift of world power and ideology based off hyper fearful overreactions....the vehicle that will relieve us of the responsibility of freedom as we know may have arrived in the form of a virus released by the Chinese.

For future, the Feds should create warehouse space in which companies can stockpile emergency goods without paying rent or inventory tax. When needed, Govt pays usual price plus markup based on how long the goods have been idle instead of being sold immediately (ie lost opportunity costs). No price gouging.

EDIT: also a means for companies to have idle manufacturing equipment, or design for quick changeover -- without paying extra tax etc on it.

Not in a million years should the Feds be responsible for storage of goods to counter price gouging.....this is counter to the freedom of choice we value and the repercussions that follow.....asking the Feds should step in is suggesting socialism style price controls not central banking sophistication

At this point I need to ask what your actual background is besides a degreed science background and what you are hoping to learn from this site which has Doctors of the sciences Phd's, Lawyers, Physicians(Medical Doctors) on this site reading and sharing perspective.....I am trying to understand after reading your posts exactly what your objective is here because thus far it sounds like fear mongering to some.

[InTheBlack]

Originally Posted by Penn

ITB


There is no speculation on origin. The Wahun Virus is Chinese in Origin. That is not a racist statement, but a geographical fact.

You are changing the subject - human made vs natural.

[WarriorDiplomat]

Originally Posted by InTheBlack

You are changing the subject - human made vs natural.

Who are you and what is your background?

[Penn]

ITB,
We would like you to explain the following, based on this simple fact. You joined in 2006/7. In all that time you have only participated in two threads exclusively, the Pandemic thread and this one. That is unusual in the extreme, especially in that you have interest or are a NRA...Yet, no firearm post, ammo questions, or other varied interest that every other member of this board does.
Additionally, it was interesting to note the FONT issue you had, and how quickly you dropped it once I called you on it.
You have the undivided attention of the board, please proceed.

[Paslode]

Originally Posted by InTheBlack

The Scripps experts are saying that it is SO GOOD that humans could not reasonably have designed it. Do you think the Scripps people have any reason NOT to be truthful about any data indicating human design?

Have there been any other findings that add credibility to or substantiate the Scripps experts claim?

Money and ideology is often a motivating factor to mislead or lie, examples of this can be found in tobacco and environmental studies, and US politics. People and groups lie, cheat and steal to get grants and funding.

[InTheBlack]

Originally Posted by WarriorDiplomat

Not in a million years should the Feds be responsible for storage of goods to counter price gouging.....this is counter to the freedom of choice we value and the repercussions that follow.....asking the Feds should step in is suggesting socialism style price controls not central banking sophistication

At this point I need to ask what your actual background is besides a degreed science background and what you are hoping to learn from this site which has Doctors of the sciences Phd's, Lawyers, Physicians(Medical Doctors) on this site reading and sharing perspective.....I am trying to understand after reading your posts exactly what your objective is here because thus far it sounds like fear mongering to some.

IMO the fear mongering is from people who say "Its 1) a deliberate release of a virus 2) designed for biowarfare" without scientific evidence. That has no relevence to how we stop it. It distracts from that. Ft Detrick does or will know. If so, disclosure needs to be made at the right time (or never), for maximum benefit to the US. Maybe tomorrow there will be a coordinated nuke strike on China. Or suddenly a trade deal very favorable to the US, and China retracts their claims to the South China Sea.

If there were adequate stockpiles of PPC then we would be way ahead of this situation. No business can afford to have that much stuff stockpiled, it needs to be a national stockpile but the national stockpile is not large enough -someone said 12M N95 and 40M surgical masks IIRC. My suggestion avoids spending tax money for stuff unless it is actually required. Every company can participate if it wants to, so no advantage to huge companies vs mom & pop. Better than having to use the Stafford Act to seize control of private companies (totalitarian arguably worse than socialist).

I have a degree in Biology with a specialty in Health Physics, and a degree in Environmental science. I ran the radiological respiratory protection program at a nuke plant. I was on National Institute of Science & Technology (NIST) subcommittees creating lead paint abatement standards. I spend time tracking down the primary research articles & ask questions about what I find.

So far I have a Scripps report, subject to peer review; versus various gut feelings.

Maybe someone will discredit the study by demonstrating that their data was manipulated by China.

[Penn]

Answer the questions that have been present to you.

[InTheBlack]

Originally Posted by Penn

ITB,
We would like you to explain the following, based on this simple fact. You joined in 2006/7. In all that time you have only participated in two threads exclusively, the Pandemic thread and this one. That is unusual in the extreme, especially in that you have interest or are a NRA...Yet, no firearm post, ammo questions, or other varied interest that every other member of this board does.
Additionally, it was interesting to note the FONT issue you had, and how quickly you dropped it once I called you on it.
You have the undivided attention of the board, please proceed.

I dropped the font problem because there was no solution found, other than to use print view. Moved on.

I don't need to discuss firearms. I joined because of the 2006 flu threat; this was & is an excellent resource for the medical & biological issues. Its going off the rails with the political speculation.