M9 Issues

[Gene Econ]

Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc

I did not know the M9 was pushed by the Air Force - I find it incredible that the AF or blue Navy would even have a dog in the hunt. The SOC needs to do like Reaper said in another post - basically become a branch. Own promotions, own procurement, etc.

Doc:

The 9mm cartridge was pretty much mandated by congress. During that time -- mid 80's -- there was a lot of political push towards being more like the Europeans and the 9mm issue was part of this mess. I also think that DoD wanted to standardize pistol cartridges with NATO. Guys who knew better were ignored. SF wasn't a branch at the time and there was no USSOCOM or ASOC to project intent and influence the RDTE system. However, there was SWCS and to my recollection, no comments or input were given by SWCS concerning the 9mm issue.

I was fortunate to listen to the Colonel who OIC'd the pistol evaluation as he gave a breifing on this particular test. The test had to be textbook in terms of perfection due to the immense pressure of DoD and the companies who submitted pistols for evaluation. I dare say that it was easier to test the M-1 Tank.

There was enough pressure placed on the system by others to allow some .45 M-1911's into the test. I don't think any of them even 'placed' in any of the tests. In other words, they all showed failures of one sort or the other while any one of the 9mm competitors didn't. I can recall my surprise to learn that the 1911 was on the low end for a dust test that is done with all firearms. Fired while in a dusty environment much like the fine dust in a desert. The 1911's were at the bottom of the list in this particular test.

The proponents of the .45 M-1911 claimed that the failures were due to the use of .45 ACP ammunition that wasn't the traditional issued WCC .45 ACP. I believe they were probably right but that is now history. The DoD and congress basically mandated the 9mm cartridge and the 1911s failed in so many of the evaluations that nothing more could be said.

Colt did offer to convert the 1911's to 9mm at a significantly lesser cost than buying a new pistol. Unfortunately, the requirements document demanded more things than anyone could do with the 1911 frame.

'Serpent 6' knows exactly what he is talking about and I bet the AMU is submitting a pistol that meets the requirements established by SOCOM. I would not blame the AMU or any company for that matter on the item they submit for evaluation. They only respond to a very detailed requirements document that is more than likely extremely unrealistic in its demands. The fellow who authors the requirements document is taking input from the 'field' so if anyone has problems with these things -- an operator somewhere is the one who is behind the performance demands that result in a typically competitive grade of pistol.

Gene

[sfmedicw9]

Originally Posted by kgoerz

Working at SFARTEC where we issued students the the same M-9 pistols time after time. The only part we had consistantly break was the Locking Block.

Also working at the lake / range 37 when we first transitioned fom the 1911s. We shot the holy crap out of those M9s they would go through 13 week course after 13 week course during wich the students put 1000s of rounds of 9mm through them - the only problem was the locking blocks

BUT THEN some knuckleheads blew off some slides by using 9mm carbine ammo and then we had to replace the slides every 1000 rnds then every 3000 rounds even after they retrofitted them with the slide catch.

i never replaced mine at the lake and by the time i switched it I had over 15k on the one gun no problems

I have been shooting m9s when the go down due to locking blocks and the best way i can dwscribe the failure sequence is thaty the gun starts feeling "crunchy" then when it finaly goes down it locks shut.

if you look over the ejection port one block will be lower than the other - just keep it pointed down range and fiddle with it until you can get the emty case out.

if you keep a spare locking lug on the range - no real break in training


The arguments that this gun is best or that gun is best crack me up - its a personal preference thing and i think that training trumps types of gun in most cases.

the best gun you can have is the one your most trained with.

I still shoot berreta products to this day because thats what im comfortable with - If your a glock guy I wouldnt want you to switch if you doing something other than shooting paper

fact is when the proverbial shit hits the fan you'll always try to shoot what your most trained with no matter whats in your hand.