POTUS Weighs in on Harvard Prof Arrest

[The Reaper]

While I enjoy a spirited discussion as well as the next guy, and perhaps a bit of wrestling in the mud as well, I would like to take this opportunity to remind posters to keep it civil, avoid name-calling, personal attacks, and innuendos, and focus on the facts at hand in the case we are discussing.

Sometimes, you will never know what actually happened, and you will never change someone else's mind about how the deal went down. The internet is a poor medium for such arguments.

Most posters here have seen both bad cops and bad citizens.

Please remain focused on the issues and drop the personal attacks, or this thread will be closed.

One thing I have learned from this is Dr. Gates' address, that he has a door which can be easily jimmied, and that his neighbors will probably not bother to call the cops in the future if they see someone attempting to break in.

TR

[Paslode]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

One thing I have learned from this is Dr. Gates' address, that he has a door which can be easily jimmied, and that his neighbors will probably not bother to call the cops in the future if they see someone attempting to break in.

TR

Excellent point. Reminds me of the old tale 'The Boy who cried Wolf' in that the next time Dr. Gates requires assistance people may turn a blind eye.

[Box]

his neighbors will probably not bother to call the cops in the future if they see someone attempting to break in.

Good point - no kidding...
...and now a nation of bad guys knows that also.

[greenberetTFS]

Originally Posted by Billy L-bach

Good point - no kidding...
...and now a nation of bad guys knows that also.

Billy's right,the only benefit here is to the bad guys........

Big Teddy

[Pete]

Black officer at scholar's home supports arrest

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090724/...esting_officer


"....."CAMBRIDGE, Mass. – A black police officer who was at Henry Louis Gates Jr.'s home when the black Harvard scholar was arrested says he fully supports how his white fellow officer handled the situation.

Sgt. Leon Lashley says Gates was probably tired and surprised when Sgt. James Crowley demanded identification from him as officers investigated a report of a burglary. Lashley says Gates' reaction to Crowley was "a little bit stranger than it should have been."

Asked if Gates should have been arrested, Lashley said supported Crowley "100 percent."..........."

This is just the first part of the story - read the rest. Remember - nobody at the home at the time of the incedent knew he had just got back from a long trip.

[Sigaba]

Originally Posted by Billy L-bach

Good point - no kidding...
...and now a nation of bad guys knows that also.

Originally Posted by greenberetTFS

Billy's right,the only benefit here is to the bad guys........

I'm optimistic. Professor Gates, his neighbors, and the Cambridge PD can easily turn the corner on this incident during a well-organized block party.

Down the line, Professor Gates should get a much deserved teasing from his colleagues and peers. "Say, aren't you the brainiac who got arrested in his own home?" And "Hey, we took up a collection so that you could have extra sets of keys made." Hopefully, an enterprising student will post a note on the door of Gates's office that reads "Hug me if I appear confrontational."

A comment about Harvard's W. E. B. Du Bois Institute for African and African American Research. In the last few years, the institute has hosted presentations by the late George Fredrickson and Steven Hahn <<LINK>> as part of two on-going lecture series. Fredrickson's lectures offer a reassessment of Lincoln's views on African Americans and how those views changed over time.* Hahn's lectures present three re-considerations of the political activities of African Americans. If Hahn's arguments are sustainable, we will see drastic changes in the way American history and military history are studied.**

In combination, the lectures by Fredrickson and Hahn could mark the starting points of sea changes not only in the study of history, but also in contemporary American politics, society, and civil-military affairs. Fredrickson offers an interpretation of Lincoln that encourages Americans to reconsider their views of Lincoln, of race, and (perhaps unintentionally) their relationship with the GOP. Hahn's reformulation of what constitutes political activism and the impact of that activism on war might lead to a greater appreciation of soldiers who specialize in unconventional warfare.

Professor Gates invited both men to deliver those lectures. Perhaps his focus is a bit broader than it may seem at first glance.
______________________________________
* George Fredrickson, Big Enough to Be Inconsistent: Abraham Lincoln Confronts Slavery and Race, The W. E. B. Du Bois Lectures (2008).
**Steven Hahn, The Political Worlds of Slavery and Freedom, The Nathan I. Huggins Lectures (2009).

[Defender968]

Originally Posted by Pete

I would argue that it is not LE's role to keep "society orderly" . It is LE's job to enforce the law. I would think there is a big diference between those two.

Also I think the Courts of the Land have ruled there is no "protect people" in Law Enforcement, just enforce laws and sweep up the results of a crime. The average citizen has no right of protection.

"why do we enforce noise ordinances?" Because it is the law, not because some LEO has sensitive ears.

Pete I agree with you that LE is there to enforce the law but why is that inportant? My intent though probably poorly articulated was that the deeper reason for having laws is to maintain order as well as to try to keep people safe and to bring justice when necessary. IMHO laws exist to try to keep society from descending into chaos by promoting safety, justince and order. Nearly any law you can think of can be tied to either of those three things.

So I would argue that a LEO's job is to apply the laws to the benefit of the society that he/she is in to maintain law and order.

My theory as an LEO was to apply the laws fairly but also in the best way for the particular jurisdiction I was in, to maintain safety, justice, and order (and I was not alone in that view). The laws on the books are tools to help LEO's do that. For instance we had a fair amount of tourists in my old AO, if I enforced the jaywalking ordinance vigorously it would likely cause more problems than solutions, so instead of citing people for jaywalking as the law requires I might add, I often choose to simply speak to a person I witnessed doing it, they get the point and hopefully won't do it again, but I didn't have to actually pull out a ticket book and everyone has a positive experience if I did it properly. Did I fail in my duties then if I choose not to "enforce" the jaywalking law, I would argue that I didn't as I mitigated the risk of the citizen getting hurt by notifying them of the danger (the intent of the law) while not actually making then pay the fine.

The noise ordinance example is enforced because it is a law yes, but IMO it is in effect to reduce a friction point between people to maintain a harmonious community. Most laws, again IMO are put in place either to protect people, or to keep things orderly, and some do both. If we had no speed limits people would drive too fast, and likely get hurt, also the traffic control via known traffic patterns would become nearly impossible to control or effect, and thus our morning commutes would be much less orderly and much more dangerous.

I also agree with you completely that LEO's can't protect people, the saying when seconds count LEO's are only minutes away is completely true as I think I've said here before.

In the end often times multiple laws can be applied to a situation a LEO is dealing with at the same time, some times they even conflict and it is a LEO's job to apply them to the best of his abilities while keeping in mind the intent of the laws for the benefit of society.

[greenberetTFS]

Originally Posted by Sigaba

I'm optimistic. Professor Gates, his neighbors, and the Cambridge PD can easily turn the corner on this incident during a well-organized block party.

Down the line, Professor Gates should get a much deserved teasing from his colleagues and peers. "Say, aren't you the brainiac who got arrested in his own home?" And "Hey, we took up a collection so that you could have extra sets of keys made." Hopefully, an enterprising student will post a note on the door of Gates's office that reads "Hug me if I appear confrontational."

A comment about Harvard's W. E. B. Du Bois Institute for African and African American Research. In the last few years, the institute has hosted presentations by the late George Fredrickson and Steven Hahn <<LINK>> as part of two on-going lecture series. Fredrickson's lectures offer a reassessment of Lincoln's views on African Americans and how those views changed over time.* Hahn's lectures present three re-considerations of the political activities of African Americans. If Hahn's arguments are sustainable, we will see drastic changes in the way American history and military history are studied.**

In combination, the lectures by Fredrickson and Hahn could mark the starting points of sea changes not only in the study of history, but also in contemporary American politics, society, and civil-military affairs. Fredrickson offers an interpretation of Lincoln that encourages Americans to reconsider their views of Lincoln, of race, and (perhaps unintentionally) their relationship with the GOP. Hahn's reformulation of what constitutes political activism and the impact of that activism on war might lead to a greater appreciation of soldiers who specialize in unconventional warfare.

Professor Gates invited both men to deliver those lectures. Perhaps his focus is a bit broader than it may seem at first glance.
______________________________________
* George Fredrickson, Big Enough to Be Inconsistent: Abraham Lincoln Confronts Slavery and Race, The W. E. B. Du Bois Lectures (2008).
**Steven Hahn, The Political Worlds of Slavery and Freedom, The Nathan I. Huggins Lectures (2009).

Sigaba has made a very good point here....... Read his Link/URL......

Big Teddy

[Defender968]

Originally Posted by Brush Okie

It seems to me both people showed poor judgment. When a cop askes you for your ID, you give it. His inital refuasal and arguing with the cop was nothing more than playing the race card and doing his best to be a victom. Show your ID dummy.

The officer showed poor judgement by confronting a potental criminal on his own. Why didn't he have backup in case a fight happened. In this case he would have had a second officer to back up his story. Second the officer MAY have let is temper get the best of him. Was the guy an idiot? You bet. After he found out it was the guys house and no burgelry happened, leave. In that line of work you meet jerks every day, shine it on as another jerk. Now not being there and the filter through the media can skew things, so I am not going to pass judgement, but from what they both said that is my take on it. BTW I don't think race was an issue on the officers part.

As for the big O, he needs to stay out of it. With two wars going on, the bad economy and the day to day workings of the country he has more important things that he needs to address. Just my opinion.

From a tactical standpoint I would tend to agree with you on the surface; however we don't know what the radio traffic was, the Sgt may have known where the other officers were responding from and thus knew he would only be alone for a short time. Some depts SOP is to answer up with their location when dispatched to a call, and the Sgt may have just happened to be closer. Even with that being said I still don't know that it's worth it considering I don't think he thought anyone's life was a risk, but it's his life and thus his call.

I've made entry on my own when it was a violent domestic, and I weighed the risks very carefully and quickly before I did so, but in the end I didn't feel like I could live with myself if I didn't go in and the woman I could hear screaming died as a result of my inaction. But that's a whole different scenario in itself.

[greenberetTFS]

As for the big O, he needs to stay out of it. With two wars going on, the bad economy and the day to day workings of the country he has more important things that he needs to address. Just my opinion./quote/BO

He's right on target with this,BHO should have more important things he's faced with than to get involved in this issue........

Big Teddy

[Utah Bob]

By ALEXANDER BURNS & CAROL E. LEE | 7/24/09 12:51 PM EDT
Updated: 7/24/09 3:17 PM EDT


President Obama made a surprise appearance in the White House briefing room Friday in an attempt to tamp down the escalating controversy over his comments on the Monday arrest of Harvard Prof. Henry Louis Gates by the Cambridge, Mass., Police Department.

Just hours after Cambridge police union officials called on Obama to apologize for saying the officers involved in the incident with Gates behaved "stupidly," Obama conceded that he erred in his "choice of words."

Obama said he spoke to James Crowley, the sergeant who arrested Gates, "and I have to tell you that, as I said yesterday, my impression of him is that he was an outstanding police officer...and that was confirmed in the phone conversation."

"In my choice of words, I unfortunately gave the impression that I was maligning the Cambridge Police Department or Sergeant Crowley specifically," Obama said, walking back his sharpest criticism.

But, the president said: "I continue to believe, based on what I have heard, that there was an overreaction in pulling Prof. Gates out of his home and to the station. I also continue to believe, based on what I heard, that Prof. Gates probably overreacted as well."

Obama's comments marked an abrupt shift in tone since Friday morning, when White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs dismissed a suggestion that the backlash from police groups could be distressing to the White House, given that Obama has enjoyed a positive relationship with the law enforcement community.

"I think the Fraternal Order of Police endorsed McCain," Gibbs fired back at reporters, referring to Obama's Republican opponent in the 2008 election. "If I'm not mistaken."

At a Cambridge press conference Friday morning featuring Crowley, union leaders said Obama and Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick had both gone after Cambridge officers' performance without having full information about the incident involving Gates.

Steve Killian, the president of the Cambridge Police Patrol Officers Association took exception to the president's charge that Cambridge police handled the incident "stupidly."



"Cambridge police are not stupid. I am proud to represent the officers of the Cambridge Police Department," Killian said. "I think the president should make an apology to all law enforcement personnel throughout the entire country."

And Alan J. McDonald, an attorney for the police unions, stopped short of calling for an apology, but said he was hopeful both the president and Patrick would issue one.

"We're not demanding an apology from anyone…hopeful that upon reflection, they will realize that their statements were misguided and will take the appropriate action in the form of an apology," McDonald said.

While Obama backtracked on the most controversial part of his remarks on Gates's arrest, he stopped short of a direct apology. And the president said he did not regret having commented in the first place.

Noting that some critics suggested it was inappropriate for the president to comment on a local law enforcement matter, Obama told reporters: "I have to tell you, that part of it I disagree with. Race is still a troubling aspect of our society."

"Because of our history," Obama explained, "African Americans are sensitive to these issues."

Obama's appearance in the briefing room signaled a quick reversal in the White House's communications strategy and seemed to reflect a recognition that the growing dispute over Gates's arrest required a more direct response from the administration.

Just a few hours before Obama took the briefing-room podium, White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs told reporters that Obama had already "said what he's going to say on this."

After Obama left the briefing room Friday afternoon, Gibbs took a different line from the podium, telling the press that the president's remarks reflected an ongoing "conversation" about race.

"These are important issues that play out in our daily lives," he said

Source

[Defender968]

Originally Posted by Utah Bob

Just saw O on TV explaining himself and backpedaling. Interesting.

But the one didn't apologize, not that I'm surprised, even though I believe, as you all can tell, that the officer and Department both deserve one from both the President and Mr. Gates.

[echoes]

Originally Posted by Defender968

I've made entry on my own when it was a violent domestic, and I weighed the risks very carefully and quickly before I did so, but in the end I didn't feel like I could live with myself if I didn't go in and the woman I could hear screaming died as a result of my inaction. But that's a whole different scenario in itself.

Defender,

IMVHO, your law-enforcement opinion carries weight over academics, in that you have been there, and done that!

In a couple of situations I have found myself in, it was the LEO's who provided guidence and knowledge to an ill-informed individual, such as myself.

Thank goodness for LEO's.

JMHO,

Holly

[Sigaba]

Source is here.

President Phones Cambridge Policeman

WASHINGTON (AP) - Trying to tamp down an uproar over race, President Barack Obama said Friday he used an unfortunate choice of words in commenting on the arrest of black scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr. and could have "calibrated those words differently."

The president said he had telephoned the white policeman who arrested Gates, and he said the conversation confirmed his belief that the officer was a good man and an outstanding officer.

Obama said later that he had spoken to Gates as well, but he didn't say any more about that conversation.

The president caused a stir when he said at a prime-time news conference earlier this week that Cambridge, Mass., police had "acted stupidly" by arresting Gates, a Harvard scholar and friend of the president's, for disorderly conduct.

On Friday, Obama made an impromptu appearance at the daily White House briefing in an effort to contain the controversy. He said he continued to believe that both the officer, Sgt. James Crowley, and Gates had overreacted during the incident, but the president also faulted his own comments.

"This has been ratcheting up, and I obviously helped to contribute ratcheting it up," he said. "I want to make clear that in my choice of words, I think I unfortunately gave an impression that I was maligning the Cambridge police department and Sgt. Crowley specifically. And I could've calibrated those words differently."

The incident began when police went to Gates' home last week after a passer-by reported a potential break-in. It turned out that Gates had tried to jimmy open his own door, which was stuck, and there was no intruder. Gates protested the police actions and was arrested, although the charges have since been dropped.

Before Obama's appearance Friday, a multiracial group of police officers stood with Crowley in Massachusetts and asked Obama and the state's governor, Deval Patrick, to apologize for comments they called insulting. Patrick has said Gates' arrest was "every black man's nightmare."

Dennis O'Connor, president of the Cambridge Police Superior Officers Association, said Obama's remarks were "misdirected" and the Cambridge police "deeply resent the implication" that race was a factor in the arrest.

Sgt. Leon Lashley, a black officer who was at Gates' home with Crowley at the time of the arrest, said he supported his fellow officer's action "100 percent."

Gates has said he returned from an overseas trip, found the door jammed and he and his driver attempted to force it open. Gates went through the back door and was inside the house when police arrived. Police say he flew into a verbal rage when Crowley asked him to show identification to prove he should be in the home. Police say Gates accused Crowley of racial bias, refused to calm down and was arrested.

Gates, 58, maintains he turned over identification when asked to do so. He says Crowley arrested him after the professor followed him to the porch, repeatedly demanding the sergeant's name and badge number because he was unhappy over his treatment.

The president did not give the impression that he was maligning the officer in question: he maligned the officer in question.

[Defender968]

Originally Posted by echoes

Defender,

IMVHO, your law-enforcement opinion carries weight over academics, in that you have been there, and done that!

In a couple of situations I have found myself in, it was the LEO's who provided guidence and knowledge to an ill-informed individual, such as myself.

Thank goodness for LEO's.

JMHO,

Holly

Thanks Holly, it's good to hear there are people who appreciate LEOs.