Stealerships and Car Troubles

[zuluzerosix]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Sure they do.

But in the 50s and 60s, they produced much better cars than the alternative foreign manufacturers. The first cars I remember were my Dad's '52 Ford, my Grandfather's '49 Chevy, and my other Grandfather's '48 Plymouth. Dad upgraded to a '59 Ford, then a progression of Fords and GMs every four years or so. His last vehicle was a '62 GMC pick-up.

By the 70s, that was changing, and the American QC got progressively worse, as the foreign makers, particularly the Japanese, made the cars people wanted and made them better, in both design and quality. The impression that the Big Three projected was that we know what you need and want better than you do. Check the Consumer Reports, JD Powers, and other quality satisfaction surveys. The U.S. auto makers got an import tax levied on imports, ostensibly to allow them to undercut foreign pricing while they converted to build fuel efficient vehicles, then almost immediately raised their own prices by a matching amount.

In the 80s and 90s, they were consistently building poor quality cars of limited utility. They alienated an entire generation.

They have improved since then, and have closed the gap a bit with the foreign manufacturers (especially as the foreign companies built factories here in the US), but based on previous treatment (and the fact that there is still a gap), many of us will never buy a Big Three car again.

They may make a car that will last 100,000 miles relatively trouble free, rather than the 60,000 they used to last, but the Japanese make cars that will run 200,000 miles or more without anything other than routine maintenance. I had an uncle who put 450,000 miles on a 80s era Honda wagon over 15 years before letting his son have the car. I sold our Dodge Intrepid with 206,000 miles on it, and it was a wreck, after having body integrity, cooling, HVAC, steering, transmission, and engine issues. We spent several thousand on unscheduled repairs for it. We are at 175,000 miles on a Honda minivan with no significant issues. The last Ford Explorer I had started breaking down at 15,000 miles. I have a Dodge Ram in the driveway right now which started giving me engine troubles at 19,000 miles. It was in the dealer's service department at least eight times for the same problem under warranty. The dealer acknowledged the problem, but refused to fix it, and the regional service rep told me to live with it. If I take my Acura in with any complaint, however minor, they fix it right then, treat me right, and charge nothing. If it going to take more than an hour, they will usually offer me a loaner.

If you read the entire thread, you will see my negative experiences with the dealerships, management, build quality, warranty service, etc. I will maintain that poor products, bad designs, exorbitant labor costs, uncaring tenured workers, a bloated dealer network, and questionable business practices have ruined the US auto industry. I have been driving since the early 70s, in 60s cars, and have owned U.S. (all of major makes), British, German, and Japanese cars.

You fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. I gave Detroit many chances, they screwed me, repeatedly, and laughed in my face about it. Never again.

Hope that explains my comments. Your mileage may vary.

TR

We can argue this point all day, but if TR was off, even just a little bit-so many Americans would not share his point of view.

Ford Motor Company openly admits to quality problems with their cars and suv's. We came come along way recently in terms of quality. But how does that matter to someone who has spent many thousands of dollars on a product that reapeatedly breaks with little or no support from the product manufacturer or seller?

Remember, Ford admitted that the Ford Taurus in the the mid-80's actually saved the company.

All Ford can do as a company is build quality products, improve the quality of its dealers and try and win those folks back. Some folks will never return.

There are many, many sucess stories. Ford has loyal buyers. But Lexus Dealers for an example have focused on creating customers for life. They have been sucessful at it. While American dealers only sell what they can see and move on to the next customer. It's all about today, today and today. When it should really be about establishing relationships and building on them.

One's position as a sales rep gets his foot in the door with customer. How he conducts himself will determine his sucess. The same rule applies to the service dept.

I try and teach my sales force to focus on the service, lay the ground work for life long customers. Service, service Service. One of the things that we do is have the salesperson meet his customer everytime they come in for an oil change and see how things are going, make them feel welcome etc....

And some still don't get it. We still have a long way to go. But as much as I want to argue against TR's point, I think he is right.

[Gypsy]

Originally Posted by zuluzerosix

I try and teach my sales force to focus on the service, lay the ground work for life long customers. Service, service Service.

As a consumer I can't tell you how far this goes with me, and pretty much every one I know.

And as a sales professional for the past gazillion years (feeling old after another birthday ) in many different industries, to include headhunting, that is how I positioned my product. Everyone has <insert your product/service here, your competitor has the same stuff> it's all about the individual service you provide to your customer.

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

You fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. I gave Detroit many chances, they screwed me, repeatedly, and laughed in my face about it. Never again.

Hope that explains my comments. Your mileage may vary.

TR

I'm with you.

After the UAW's influence with the last election I can tell you now, I've purchased my last "American" made car, or should I say "union" car.

It burns my ass to be forced to pay taxes to bail out a private company or the socialist unions that destroyed it.

Never again.

Maybe Wal-Mart will start making cars!

Team Sergeant

TS,
When Sam Walton was still alive, he touted that all products in Wally World were American made...see how many you find now..

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by armymom1228

TS,
When Sam Walton was still alive, he touted that all products in Wally World were American made...see how many you find now..

I shop ther almost every day and I see thousands of American products such as, Winchester, Federal, Plano, Mossburg, Remington, Hunter Specialities, Browning, Bear, Mossy Oak, Leatherman, Real Tree,Thompson Center Arms, Kleen Bore etc etc etc etc etc etc

"You sure you want to ride this train?" (Hancock, that movie cracks me up every time I watch it.)

Don't get me started.

Again, I will never purchase another, left wing, socialist, United Auto Worker made vehicle.

Team Sergeant

[Richard]

We've got two black Trail Blazers (2007 w/7k mi and 2003 w/63k mi) and a patriot blue Sebring convertible (2000 w/53k mi) - all are paid for and we've have had no troubles with any of them.

But I wish I had my '62 Vette back.

Richard's $.02

[ZonieDiver]

I'm with TS and The Reaper! (Do I know how to pick sides, or what?) My last "US made" vehicle was an '89 GMC 3500 one ton pickup - used mainly to tow a large boat. I got it serviced at a Cadillac/GM dealership and had good luck with repairs and customer service. I cannot say the same for the Dodge's that came before it, or the Ford in the early 80's.

My current vehicle is a KIA, built by our S. Korean allies! It is a 2006 Sportage, which replaced a '97 Sportage (traded in with 140,000 miles). Not a lick of trouble from either, great service, great follow-up, fantastic customer service, and... a great price and warranty.

And now, KIA is opening a US plant in West Point, GA!

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

I shop ther almost every day and I see thousands of American products such as, Winchester, Federal, Plano, Mossburg, Remington, Hunter Specialities, Browning, Bear, Mossy Oak, Leatherman, Real Tree,Thompson Center Arms, Kleen Bore etc etc etc etc etc etc

"You sure you want to ride this train?" (Hancock, that movie cracks me up every time I watch it.)

Don't get me started.

Again, I will never purchase another, left wing, socialist, United Auto Worker made vehicle.

Team Sergeant

Don't blame you about the car. I always thought that the UAW was stupid for not taking a cut in pay to keep a job. If I can take a ten dollar and hour cut to keep money coming in.. why cannot they? Something is better than nothing.

Sam said he would never allow foriegn made goods in his store. After his death.. look at the clothing labels.. am wearing a top made in VietNam and shorts sewn in Nicarauga from Wally World... guns... well, in Baltimore City/County NO gun sales period.. Have to go down to Anne Arundel.. and for me back to Floridaze to get anything since my DL is from there..

[zuluzerosix]

What is SAE?

You see it everywhere in the automotive industry. SAE 40 motor oil, SAE certified parts, brake fuid, transmission fluid etc....

The Society of Automobile Engineers began in 1905.

SAE is a non-profit educational and scientific organization dedicated to advancing mobility technology to better serve humanity. Over 90,000 engineers and scientists, who are SAE members, develop technical information on all forms of self-propelled vehicles including automobiles, trucks and buses, off-highway equipment, aircraft, aerospace vehicles, marine, rail, and transit systems. SAE disseminates this information through its meetings, books, technical papers, magazines, standards, reports, professional development programs, and electronic databases.



History

Website Home

Originally Posted by zuluzerosix

What is SAE?

You see it everywhere in the automotive industry. SAE 40 motor oil, SAE certified parts, SAE certified mechanics, brake fuid, transmission fluid etc....

The Society of Automobile Engineers began in 1905.

SAE is a non-profit educational and scientific organization dedicated to advancing mobility technology to better serve humanity. Over 90,000 engineers and scientists, who are SAE members, develop technical information on all forms of self-propelled vehicles including automobiles, trucks and buses, off-highway equipment, aircraft, aerospace vehicles, marine, rail, and transit systems. SAE disseminates this information through its meetings, books, technical papers, magazines, standards, reports, professional development programs, and electronic databases.



[URL="http://www.sae.org/about/general/history/"]History[As/URL]

Website Home

I'm a former member of the SAE, and to my knowledge the SAE has never certified mechanics. The the certification you are thinking of is ASE / the National Institute for Automotive Service Excellence .

http://www.ase.com/

[zuluzerosix]

Originally Posted by WCH

I'm a former member of the SAE, and to my knowledge the SAE has never certified mechanics. The the certification you are thinking of is ASE / the National Institute for Automotive Service Excellence .

http://www.ase.com/

Yes, you are right, my mistake.

http://jalopnik.com/391696/1961-ferr...nsive-car-ever

[uplink5]

That's nuts, more power to you if you can but, just nuts....

[Masochist]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

EVERYTHING

Sadly I have to fall in with the "never again" Ford crowd. I have driven numerous Fords (Bronco, Escort, Taurus, Explorer), as I grew up in a Ford family and followed their lead once I became of driving age.

Why I'll Never Buy Ford Again

Fast-forward to just after my first mobilization. As a single E-4, I purchased a new Explorer in cash to replace my '89 Cadillac (it was almost 13 years old). Right off the bat, the dealer did everything humanly possible to get me to sign for a loan. "Are you SURE you want to put down that much cash?"

As I was returning to college after coming off active duty, I didn't yet know of a reputable mechanic in the area. I make it a habit of finding someone local who I can get to know personally and develop a report with for servicing I don't do on my own, as I've had way too many dealership issues. One morning I took my year-old Explorer into the local Ford dealership for new break pads; they said it would be a few hours and they would call when it was finished. I finally received a call right before COB saying the work was done and my bill was ~$900. Apparently they decided to replace the break pads, rotors and do some other work they said was "necessary" even though my truck was only a year old. Long story short, after speaking with the manager and looking at the original request for work, I only had to pay for the brake pads and service as I never authorized the additional work.

A few years later while driving home from drill, my transmission dies approximately 45 mins from the armory (and two hours from home). It had less than 85,000 miles on it at this point and was the first issue I had outside of regular fluid and break pad changes and scheduled maintenance. After researching my model and confirming with the dealer, it seems Ford switched to an "improved" transmission that year and it was notorious for failing early (yet not considered recall-worthy ). I read of the same transmission failing as early as 24K for some people. To top things off, I was just outside of the warranty and had to pay $2800 for a rebuilt transmission.

And since I can't leave on a sour note during the holiday season:

My Positive Ford Story

I was home for the holidays, and Murphy decided to come with me for the ride. In the week before Christmas the rear passenger-side motor for my window failed (leaving the window down in single-digit weather) and the door ajar light/tones would go off randomly while driving. I took it to the local dealership at the recommendation of family. The service manager put a rush on ordering a new window motor (for this model there are different motors for front and rear windows - he only had the front) and replaced a faulty door sensor that day. The following afternoon both issues were taken care of with a reasonable bill in time to continue visiting with the family.

A few days later the door chimes/light started coming on again. I contacted the dealership and they asked if I could bring it in that day (even though it was right before Christmas). They replaced and lubed all seals on the doors, as the expansion/contraction of the old seals were causing the issue, all for no charge.

Turns out the service manager is a VN vet with a Bronze Star (w/ V) and two Purple Hearts. One of the most humble and generous guys I've been fortunate to meet.

[GratefulCitizen]

Won't waste my money on a new car.

Depreciation is expensive.
Registration is expensive.
If you finance it, insurance is expensive.
New cars still break down and still can get damaged/vandalized/stolen.

Found a '77 Mercedes 240D to use as a daily driver.
Cost about ~$1500 total for purchase/new tires/initial repairs and maintenance.

Tags and insurance are minimal, maintenance is trivial, and they only last for around 1 million miles or so (seriously).
Gets about 25-30 mpg in town, and can run on vegetable oil or used hydraulic fluid.

I just rent a new car for long out-of-town trips.