non-select - Page 4

Daver · 05-01-2006, 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dustin03

Yes sir, they told all non selects they where NTR'd, and that's the way it's going to be for a while. We called the Guard liason at Bragg and he said our best bet was to wait it out for a year until the COC changes again, and perhaps they will lift this new rule. As far as I know the NTR rule is still in effect. Now this was in January, and I haven't heard any change yet.

First of all, before you say things like all Non-selects were NTR'd and that's the way it's going to be for a while you better hope you are right! In this case, you are WAY wrong and generally pissing me off. Since I personally know everyone who was present at your board, I can promise you the reason you weren't selected is because you did not meet the requirements to be selected and therefore weren't. It's pretty simple.....you made it through 24 days but you weren't what we were looking for and nobody on this site can change that nor would they want to. Just because you make it through 24 days doesn't give you the right to automatically be selected. The best thing you can do is continue on with what you're doing and be satisfied that you tried your best. The fact that you were a 24 day Non-Select TWICE and are bringing your grievance here tells me all I need to know. The board was RIGHT by Non-Selecting you.
Good Luck.

**The Reaper** · 05-01-2006, 20:19

Well, Dustin, if you weren't an NTR before, you probably are now.

I did not understand where you got that from either, but I wasn't there. Daver was, and he has just confirmed that you were not told that.

Maybe you were told that you were an NTR, but that does not mean all non-selects were, unless you have access to all of the student records.

Thanks for clearing that up, SGM.

TR

**Team Sergeant** · 05-01-2006, 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daver

The board was RIGHT by Non-Selecting you.
Good Luck.

The SGM has spoken.

This is not a reality show. If you feel you must "air" your complaints or excuses in public expect the SGM to meet you head on.

Dustin03, you did not measure up.
Case closed. Now move out and draw fire.

Team Sergeant

Five-O · 05-02-2006, 08:48

Selection: Can I train this guy to cover my 6 on a team?

SFQC Graduation (Sage): Do I want this guy on my team covering my 6?
--WM

What else is there to say. I am not sure it gets any more clear cut than this. You guys (QP) have a way of breaking things down to the most simple terms. Thanks.

Vojnik · 07-07-2006, 12:53

Gentlemen,

I was referred to this board by CPTAUSRET over at SOCNET, and have a question regarding being a non-select that GREENHAT suggested I ask (very, very carefully and politely) on this board.

The question regards O's (uh, me) who are non-selects because of SARS, and/or potentially psych. I am hesitant to post specifics in a public forum because I am unsure how much I can say about SARS/psych. I believe I can discuss it's existance, but not the specific scenario or interview.

If I reattend SFAS down the road as an EM/NCO instead of as an O, will the board view this in a negative light?

I do not intend to be shady, secretive or vague, but I am attempting to tread carefully since I am fully aware that there are a lot of stripes/rockers/stars and oak leafs on this forum. I know exactly what my outprocessing brief said, and I know exactly where I made my mistakes. However if this is an "ingrained" personality trait (My assessor did not know) I do not want to waste the Cadre's time (and Army's dime) if the same negative characteristic would appear again.

Admins if I am out of line, please delete immediately. I did use search and gathered the relevent info.

Gentlemen, thanks for your time and consideration. I would greatly appreciate any insights via PM if that is appropriate and possible.

For reference/background the original question was posted NOV 05 at socnet under the Special Forces Forum with the title :"Officer to Enlisted Question"
http://www.socnetcentral.com/vb/showthread.php?t=54390

**Jack Moroney (RIP)** · 07-07-2006, 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vojnik

The question regards O's (uh, me) who are non-selects because of SARS, and/or potentially psych. If I reattend SFAS down the road as an EM/NCO instead of as an O, will the board view this in a negative light?

Well I really do not know how to answer your question other than with an observation. If you were non-select because of SARS/psych it makes no difference whether or not you are an officer or an NCO.

As far as attending SFAS and succeeding as an NCO vice an officer, you do realize that SF NCOs fill roles often exceeding their US grade structure and have served as Brigade advisors and above. They have also "run" and "strongly influenced" nations. They are not just outstanding soldiers, but exceptional leaders, managers, practitioners of unique skill sets, and teachers beyond peer. While I cannot speak for the board that will consider your success or failure for selection, it would not make a whole lot of difference to me whether you were an officer or not if you did not have the potential to be first and foremost a Special Forces Soldier. While we may hold officers to a higher standard, it was my personal philosophy that we did so because the soldiers for whom they were to assume responsibility deserved none but the very best when it came to the leadership that was to support them. It used to be that the playing field, when it came to the selection process for SFAS, was pretty even and it did not make much difference whether or not you were an officer or an NCO, save those traits that would make you a liability as an officer in SF or any other branch. The reason being that the leadership responsibilities of the NCO and Officer in SF are not distinct when folks are away from the flag pole.

**The Reaper** · 07-07-2006, 16:31

First, you need to do some reading here and introduce yourself in the proper place. Since you were referred here by CPTAUSRET, we will skip the prrliminary ass-chewing and ask that you do that at your earliest opportunity. It does indicate a potential problem with SA and attention to detail.

I would say that reattending depends on whether you think the deficiency noted is a fluke, a temporary issue, or a permanent one.

For example, you can improve your education, but not your basic intelligence. If your SARS issue was a bad decision and you think you might do better next time, come back. If you do not understand the difference between right and wrong, we can't help you and it would be a waste of time.

Almost invariably, IMHO, the cadre outbrief each stud and tell him what he did right, what he did wrong, whether he should come back, and what he needs to work on before he does. Did that not happen with you?

TR

Daver · 07-07-2006, 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vojnik

Gentlemen,

I was referred to this board by CPTAUSRET over at SOCNET, and have a question regarding being a non-select that GREENHAT suggested I ask (very, very carefully and politely) on this board.

The question regards O's (uh, me) who are non-selects because of SARS, and/or potentially psych. I am hesitant to post specifics in a public forum because I am unsure how much I can say about SARS/psych. I believe I can discuss it's existance, but not the specific scenario or interview.

If I reattend SFAS down the road as an EM/NCO instead of as an O, will the board view this in a negative light?

I do not intend to be shady, secretive or vague, but I am attempting to tread carefully since I am fully aware that there are a lot of stripes/rockers/stars and oak leafs on this forum. I know exactly what my outprocessing brief said, and I know exactly where I made my mistakes. However if this is an "ingrained" personality trait (My assessor did not know) I do not want to waste the Cadre's time (and Army's dime) if the same negative characteristic would appear again.

Admins if I am out of line, please delete immediately. I did use search and gathered the relevent info.

Gentlemen, thanks for your time and consideration. I would greatly appreciate any insights via PM if that is appropriate and possible.

For reference/background the original question was posted NOV 05 at socnet under the Special Forces Forum with the title :"Officer to Enlisted Question"
http://www.socnetcentral.com/vb/showthread.php?t=54390

I have one question for you right now;

1. Did you get boarded by the Bn Commander and other folks in the Bn conference room?

Depending on your answer, I can give you feedback.

Vojnik · 07-10-2006, 04:36

SGM,

Negative. I was not interviewed by the board. The Cadre clearly stated during the outprocessing brief that I was quickly eliminated from consideration because of a specific SARS.

Vojnik · 07-10-2006, 04:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Reaper

First, you need to do some reading here and introduce yourself in the proper place. Since you were referred here by CPTAUSRET, we will skip the prrliminary ass-chewing and ask that you do that at your earliest opportunity. It does indicate a potential problem with SA and attention to detail.

I would say that reattending depends on whether you think the deficiency noted is a fluke, a temporary issue, or a permanent one.

For example, you can improve your education, but not your basic intelligence. If your SARS issue was a bad decision and you think you might do better next time, come back. If you do not understand the difference between right and wrong, we can't help you and it would be a waste of time.

Almost invariably, IMHO, the cadre outbrief each stud and tell him what he did right, what he did wrong, whether he should come back, and what he needs to work on before he does. Did that not happen with you?

TR

TR,

I have corrected my mistake. My apologies. No excuse.

I did participate in an outbriefing by an assessor, and was clearly told where I failed. He was unsure if this would hurt my chances in the future, however.

It was not a moral issue. I acted too aggressively. However, the assessor did not know if the psychologist identified this as ingrained (permanent personality trait) or simply a poor judgement call (temporary bad decision). I believe I simply made a bad judgement call. I was unable to confirm this with the psych, however, since we had a pretty heated interview.

I hope this clarifies. Thank you for your time and advice.

Vojnik · 07-10-2006, 04:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Moroney

Well I really do not know how to answer your question other than with an observation. If you were non-select because of SARS/psych it makes no difference whether or not you are an officer or an NCO.

As far as attending SFAS and succeeding as an NCO vice an officer, you do realize that SF NCOs fill roles often exceeding their US grade structure and have served as Brigade advisors and above. They have also "run" and "strongly influenced" nations. They are not just outstanding soldiers, but exceptional leaders, managers, practitioners of unique skill sets, and teachers beyond peer. While I cannot speak for the board that will consider your success or failure for selection, it would not make a whole lot of difference to me whether you were an officer or not if you did not have the potential to be first and foremost a Special Forces Soldier. While we may hold officers to a higher standard, it was my personal philosophy that we did so because the soldiers for whom they were to assume responsibility deserved none but the very best when it came to the leadership that was to support them. It used to be that the playing field, when it came to the selection process for SFAS, was pretty even and it did not make much difference whether or not you were an officer or an NCO, save those traits that would make you a liability as an officer in SF or any other branch. The reason being that the leadership responsibilities of the NCO and Officer in SF are not distinct when folks are away from the flag pole.

Sir,

Understood. Thank you for the advice. It is much appreciated.

Daver · 07-10-2006, 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vojnik

SGM,

Negative. I was not interviewed by the board. The Cadre clearly stated during the outprocessing brief that I was quickly eliminated from consideration because of a specific SARS.

The bottom line then is that the board had no doubt that you are not SF material. As we stated in the day one briefings, SFAS is your "Try Out" for the varsity team. You were given a fair shot and you took it but missed making the team. It happens alot and all you officers came here under no illusion it would be a "Gimme". Officers are better prepared then enlisted soldiers and we expect more from them. SF is not for everybody fortunatly for the Regiment we don't want everybody. At least you tried and made it to the end. We can never keep our force strong if young men like yourself stop showing up. Fortunately, more will come and be selected. You did your best and gave it your all so at least you can look yourself in the mirror and know you didn't quit.
Good luck with your career.

SGM

Warrior-Mentor · 07-11-2006, 12:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daver

At least you tried and made it to the end. We can never keep our force strong if young men like yourself stop showing up. Fortunately, more will come and be selected. You did your best and gave it your all so at least you can look yourself in the mirror and know you didn't quit.Good luck with your career.
SGM

Just reiterating the importance of what SGM had to say.

Thank you for trying.
JM

Vojnik · 07-12-2006, 07:47

Daver,

I appreciate the insight and guidance, SGM. It is much appreciated.

WM,

Roger, sir. What I am trying to learn about, is if I return to SFAS as an NCO, will I have a clean slate or will I have a very, very difficult time convincing the board?

I asked two outbriefers this question, and I received two very different answers. Which is understandable since this is apparently an uncommon occurance.

There has been more than once since I've been in that I've heard from a peer: "I made the wrong choice; I should have enlisted for 18X/Option 40, etc." (this is usually after reading a book like "Imperial Grunts" prior to writing yet another MOI for a dog and pony show). Rather than go straight to the civilian world and put the military behind me, I figured I should at least look at the option of enlisiting to do something I love while I am still young, in shape and single. This was further reinforced by the fact that I ran into an 18x I had gone to college with who decided not to pursue a commission. Instead, he was successful in the civilian world, decided something was missing, and decided to try and join the varsity team. Right now, I honestly envy him.

My paperwork to do this was submitted prior to learning I would attend SFAS as an O. It was then put on hold by my CoC. Now that I am considering different career options, I am trying to gather as much information as possible about everything I can. The information from this board has been extremely helpful and I do appreciate the responses and advice that have been sent my way.

I would love to reattend SFAS, no matter what at what rank, or in an AD/NG capacity. However I would hate to make an uninformed decision right now without trying to learn as much as possible from those who have BTDT. I know that I can excel on the physical and teamwork portions. I am very uncertain about the workings of the board and psych. I don't want to waste anyone's times by reattending as an NCO only to discover that the board would look upon my actions as silly, stupid or suspect.

I understand that not all personality types are what SF is looking for. But I do know that how someone reacts to failure is a great indicator of their character.

Again, thanks for taking the time out to help, gentlemen.