Special Forces magazine article

[hoot72]

I have alot of time for Kaplan's articles. The man, in my opinion has a deeper understanding not only of the environment but also the reasons why many a time failures of the past have haunted the Southern Philippines and also has a good feel for public sentiments in the area.

I live across in North Borneo, a 12-14 hour ferry ride across from Sandakan to Zambonga and I know much of what Kaplan has touched on is spot on...the mistakes local authorities have made and the difference SF have made to the lives and community.

I have not, read an article to well organized and thought out that includes an understanding of the local community, their social and health problems as well as the positives that we continue to see.

Its just a crying shame the Philippine government has not, for the last two decades not been able to forsee the same problems from the SF point of view or Kaplan for that matter and tried to diffuse the situation in other manners that benefit the community, creates jobs and helps develop tourism, one of the major causes for the rise of the Abu Syaff...a fundamental lack of any of the above, as well as a lack of recognition of Sultan of Sulu claims to a monarchy that exceeds the history of the current Filipino government or the country we know as the Philippines..

Its been awfully quiet of late as far as clashes and incidents in the news in relation to activities carried out by the abu syaff but this could be due to the negotiations this year that have gone on in kuala lumpur between the muslims and the government, possibly.

I was in Semporna, 45 minutes away from Sipadan Island when they made the daring kidnapping and hostage taking exercise and it was no surprise..it was going to happen, eventually. The only stupid thing to come out of it was the lack of attention or care paid by the Malaysian Goverment to the warnings that something like this was possible.....

Kaplan, truely does read situations well.

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by hoot72

Its just a crying shame the Philippine government has not, for the last two decades not been able to forsee the same problems from the SF point of view or Kaplan for that matter and tried to diffuse the situation in other manners that benefit the community, creates jobs and helps develop tourism, one of the major causes for the rise of the Abu Syaff...a fundamental lack of any of the above, as well as a lack of recognition of Sultan of Sulu claims to a monarchy that exceeds the history of the current Filipino government or the country we know as the Philippines..

I beg to differ.....

http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark...644/ramos.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Spe...ment_(Airborne)

"Philippine President" Fidel Valdez Ramos is also a graduate of the US Army Special Forces course.

If you are going to coutinue to post here make sure your information is collected from reliable sources.

Team Sergeant

[hoot72]

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

I beg to differ.....

http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark...644/ramos.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Spe...ment_(Airborne)

"Philippine President" Fidel Valdez Ramos is also a graduate of the US Army Special Forces course.

If you are going to coutinue to post here make sure your information is collected from reliable sources.

Team Sergeant

I must disagree with you. Ramos was no better than any of his predecessors, and that also includes the current president. Time and time again, we hear corruption, corruption and more corruotion. Its a never ending saga with filipino politicis. He did no better, sorry to say.

Graduating from the US Army SF course does not make a foreign graduate an example for others to follow. It was during his tenure that tensions between the muslims and christians increased in the south, with hundreds of kidnappings, torture accusations by both sides and general political mess that was the prelude to an increase in activities, funding and training of the Abu Syaaf.

I dont see any improvement in the filipino economoy or social status of the people in general since the Marco's family were removed.

What I had stated was an opinon, something I was under the impression I was allowed to give, just like other members of this forum.

My point about what the SF and Kaplan had seen going wrong was the reasons why activities to rebuild communities, roads, infrastructure, etc etc was probably a large part of the reason why we see peace now and a unilateral cease fire and peace negotiations in Kuala Lumpur.

Something, the filipino army, even under Ramos, failed to do.

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by hoot72

I must disagree with you. Ramos was no better than any of his predecessors, and that also includes the current president. Time and time again, we hear corruption, corruption and more corruotion. Its a never ending saga with filipino politicis. He did no better, sorry to say.

Graduating from the US Army SF course does not make a foreign graduate an example for others to follow. It was during his tenure that tensions between the muslims and christians increased in the south, with hundreds of kidnappings, torture accusations by both sides and general political mess that was the prelude to an increase in activities, funding and training of the Abu Syaaf.

I dont see any improvement in the filipino economoy or social status of the people in general since the Marco's family were removed.

What I had stated was an opinon, something I was under the impression I was allowed to give, just like other members of this forum.

My point about what the SF and Kaplan had seen going wrong was the reasons why activities to rebuild communities, roads, infrastructure, etc etc was probably a large part of the reason why we see peace now and a unilateral cease fire and peace negotiations in Kuala Lumpur.

Something, the filipino army, even under Ramos, failed to do.

I've spent some time there and I will tell you that Ramos did look at some of the issues with his SF experience and training. I was there in 92 and he even took some time to come and visit us and check on some of the projects we were involved in, a few were civil affairs projects.

Yes, everyone is entitled to their opinion though some are not worth the paper they are printed on. Sort of like your take on graduating from the US Army Special Forces course does not make a graduate an example for others to follow. You’ve never been through the course yet you feel compelled to comment on us and our training. You didn’t know that about President Ramos did you? You had no earthly idea did you? Stung a little huh?

Originally Posted by hoot72

Graduating from the US Army SF course does not make a foreign graduate an example for others to follow. It was during his tenure that tensions between the muslims and christians increased in the south, with hundreds of kidnappings, torture accusations by both sides and general political mess that was the prelude to an increase in activities, funding and training of the Abu Syaaf.

You see when most of us discuss our opinions on this board most have been to all of the places we’re discussing. We’ve worked along side the people, ate with them, bled with them and usually by the time we leave we’ve made a positive impact on the people. It’s called nation building but I’m guessing you’ve never heard of that either. What we don’t do is whine or snivel about how bad it is and point fingers just because we read something some left wing media put in print.

Right now you sound like every tourist I've ever met in a foreign country, complain, whine and snivel if everything does not go your way. And have never lent a hand to help, just pointing fingers.

Originally Posted by hoot72

It was during his tenure that tensions between the muslims and christians increased in the south

You again have no idea why do you? Might I suggest more reading on the subject?

Do us a favor, next time you feel the urge to write lets hear about the positive impact you made on a foreign country or its people. I don’t expect you to run off at the mouth about the patrols you’ve been on in dangerous and contested (non-permissive) areas. Just tell us about the wells you’ve help dig, the schools you’ve help build, the water buffaloes you’ve vaccinated or the medical treatment you have given to the people free of charge. You see most of us have accomplished all those things, and more, for people we hardly know.

TS

[hoot72]

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

I've spent some time there and I will tell you that Ramos did look at some of the issues with his SF experience and training. I was there in 92 and he even took some time to come and visit us and check on some of the projects we were involved in, a few were civil affairs projects.

Yes, everyone is entitled to their opinion though some are not worth the paper they are printed on. Sort of like your take on graduating from the US Army Special Forces course does not make a graduate an example for others to follow. You’ve never been through the course yet you feel compelled to comment on us and our training. You didn’t know that about President Ramos did you? You had no earthly idea did you? Stung a little huh?




You see when most of us discuss our opinions on this board most have been to all of the places we’re discussing. We’ve worked along side the people, ate with them, bled with them and usually by the time we leave we’ve made a positive impact on the people. It’s called nation building but I’m guessing you’ve never heard of that either. What we don’t do is whine or snivel about how bad it is and point fingers just because we read something some left wing media put in print.

Right now you sound like every tourist I've ever met in a foreign country, complain, whine and snivel if everything does not go your way. And have never lent a hand to help, just pointing fingers.



You again have no idea why do you? Might I suggest more reading on the subject?

Do us a favor, next time you feel the urge to write lets hear about the positive impact you made on a foreign country or its people. I don’t expect you to run off at the mouth about the patrols you’ve been on in dangerous and contested (non-permissive) areas. Just tell us about the wells you’ve help dig, the schools you’ve help build, the water buffaloes you’ve vaccinated or the medical treatment you have given to the people free of charge. You see most of us have accomplished all those things, and more, for people we hardly know.

TS

Why are you making this a personal issue?

Are you saying every individual who has done an SF course has gone on to do good things and done the SF proud (be it foreign nationals from foreign armed forces) or have been of sound characters? I could list one example. Idema.

I have not criticized the SF or even hinted that the SF have failed in the philippines. You are coming out with your own conclusions on what I have said and twisting it, which is not very fair.

You may have been in the Philippines in 92 but you have your opinion and I have mine. I live in the area and visit frequently and yes, I do communicate with the locals and am quite familiar with what has been going on and what continues to go on in Southern Philiipines and Sabah in Malaysia because this is the territory I live in and have been living in since 1972! I was friggin born here for godsakes.

Ramos: You may think highly of the man but yes, granted he did do some re-construction work during his time in the military and president, but the facts are that during his tenure as president, fighting escalated and we saw a resurgent Abu Syaff that was far more active than ever before, even in the mid 70's and early 80's. Blame it on his commmanders. Blame it on the Philippine army. Whatever it is, both sides failed to see eye to eye and we saw an escalation of fighting.

I dont think I need to apologize for this. I have said nothing wrong and my opinions are based on my own experinces.

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by hoot72

Why are you making this a personal issue?

Are you saying every individual who has done an SF course has gone on to do good things and done the SF proud (be it foreign nationals from foreign armed forces) or have been of sound characters? I could list one example. Idema.

I have not criticized the SF or even hinted that the SF have failed in the philippines. You are coming out with your own conclusions on what I have said and twisting it, which is not very fair.

You may have been in the Philippines in 92 but you have your opinion and I have mine. I live in the area and visit frequently and yes, I do communicate with the locals and am quite familiar with what has been going on and what continues to go on in Southern Philiipines and Sabah in Malaysia because this is the territory I live in and have been living in since 1972! I was friggin born here for godsakes.

Ramos: You may think highly of the man but yes, granted he did do some re-construction work during his time in the military and president, but the facts are that during his tenure as president, fighting escalated and we saw a resurgent Abu Syaff that was far more active than ever before, even in the mid 70's and early 80's. Blame it on his commmanders. Blame it on the Philippine army. Whatever it is, both sides failed to see eye to eye and we saw an escalation of fighting.

I dont think I need to apologize for this. I have said nothing wrong and my opinions are based on my own experinces.

So now you know idema? Amazing!

Twisting? You have me at a loss.
Escalation of fighting is usually for a reason, in this case you still do not know why.
You need not apologize, I was not aware I asked for an apology?

If you have followed some of the other threads you would realize few muslims and anyone else get along, anywhere.

TS

[hoot72]

I do agree. Muslims, rarely seem to get along, anywhere with anyone else...its their one big problem which they have yet to realize. They expect everyone to respect them and their religion and their point of view on how to live, but fail to realize it works both ways....

I read this a few days ago, maybe it is of interest, Waging Peace in the Philippines. Certainly a complex situation.