High Speed Chases

[Smokin Joe]

Originally posted by Guy
There is a BIG difference between driving fast and being shot at!

When I'm at work. I drive fast ALL of time because speed is security. The adrenaline is barely noticable.

Now being shot at...rocketed or mortored! The adrenaline rush went thru the roof!

Reading about it is one thing...well, you know the rest.

My mistake Guy, I miss wrote last night and was unclear in my orginial post.

What I should have said is that your body reacts the same way to adernaline. Now based on what is happening at the time depends on how much adernaline you get.

I completely agree chasing someone and being shot are to totally different situations. BUT the bodies reaction to the adernaline dump is the same.

I'm like you I drive fast all the time while at work, I also experience little to no adernaline. However if you or I were trying to conduct a normal traffic stop then all of a sudden someone runs (either in the car or on foot) you get an adernaline dump.

Is it the same amount as being shot at honestly I don't know I have only been shot at twice, and the incidents happened so quickly that all I could do was go to cover, and the threat left the sceen. So the incidents were over very quickly. I'm sure you have alot more experience when it comes to being shot at, so you know a hell of alot more about what your body does under these circumstances. From my limited experiences my body reacted the same way. Blood pressure went up, I started to get tunnel vision, and I had little to-no-finite motor skills.

Last night I was trying to point out the fact that in a high stressful situation your body re-acts a certain way, unless you have trained yourself otherwise.

HSLD door kickin individuals have trained themselves to act a certain way, because all of the time and training they have put into there chosen profession.

Your average Cop does not have the same amount of time and training vested (in pursuit driving in this case) to properly train through your bodies natural reaction to a stressful situation.

[NousDefionsDoc]

Well, here's my opinion, as if anybody cares.

1. We need to get the bad guys or there will be a crime wave like Reaper said.

2. Need to use more technology. The chases I see are a lot of times stolen cars. GPS, etc., should cause such a drop in insurance rates as to pay for the service.

3. More training for officers. Back when I was younger, the Texas Hiwghway Patrol had specialists. Trans Ams and Cobras, specially trained officers. Kind of Road Warrior, but it worked.

4. Make a law, you don't pull over for an emergency vehicle - 2 years no license. 2nd - 5 years, 3rd - take the bus for life.

5. You run from the law, even if you didn't do anything else, 5 years minimum mandatory.

6. Officer Billy Bob Jumpback from Podunk PD don't get to chase anybody. Only those Depts., with the training and resources to do so. The Coperators.

7. That's where I would start.

8. I agree with no more tv coverage also.

As for the case above, somebody needs to look very hard at the whole case. There's a pattern of behavior there. May be the officer, but also may be the administration or the environment or even the perpetrators. But there is a problem there.

[Guy]

NDD:

I think you are being too harsh on some of your opinions. Everyone was young once and did stupid shit...should that constitute a punishment so severe that one cannot recover from?

Joe:
Comparing the LE organization to SpecOps is like comparing apples to oranges.

Someone once said:

Dude...in a calm environment you SUCK! Put your ass in a stressful situation you thrive!

[Roguish Lawyer]

Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
4. Make a law, you don't pull over for an emergency vehicle - 2 years no license. 2nd - 5 years, 3rd - take the bus for life.

5. You run from the law, even if you didn't do anything else, 5 years minimum mandatory.

Don't mess with Texas! LOL

[Roguish Lawyer]

Originally posted by The Reaper
While looking the exact quote up, I also found these, which are irrelevant to the discussion at hand, but are good words, nonetheless.

Yes, thank you. I wanted to name one of my kids after him, but my wife would not allow it. LOL

[Surgicalcric]

Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
...
4. Make a law, you don't pull over for an emergency vehicle - 2 years no license. 2nd - 5 years, 3rd - take the bus for life.

I will definately toast to that one. Something needs to be done to address this problem.

I say, if they dont pull to the RIGHT and STOP I get to push them from the roadway with the big front porch of a bumper I have on this truck. That another discussion though

Edited: I cant spell.

[Smokin Joe]

Originally posted by Guy
NDD:

Joe:
Comparing the LE organization to SpecOps is like comparing apples to oranges.

Someone once said:

Dude...in a calm environment you SUCK! Put your ass in a stressful situation you thrive!

Agreed, it was the comparison that popped into my head at the time.

I was mearly trying to show the different levels of vested time, money, and training into a certain skill. As NDD said earlier driving like shooting is a perishable skill, if you do not practice often you will lose the skill. The majority of LE organizations in my area do not provide any continuation training on prusuit DRIVING once you get out of the academy.

[Noslack71]

Whoever said there is no relation between SOF soldiers and cops is absolutely right. Cops, especially big city cops have nowhere near the training or assets that are lavished upon SOF.
I think if one looks at the stats, more cops are killed each year than SF. Sometimes, not often, the surviving cops get to kill the doers. There are no air strikes, no artillery, no CIA to help the cops. TV does not find the war on crime in the ghetto sexy. There are very few cops getting consulting fees on MSNBC. Right now, if you go into Borders Books, no one is rushing to buy the newest action novel by a former cop. If it is not lost, we are losing the war on crime in America and our best and brightest find it more rewarding to go off to foreign countries and fight for America. I am not making a judgement, merely stating what seems to be the facts I see.
Cops do get to go home at night, they are sued, often on a monthly basis and, almost every decision they make is second guessed by well educated lawyers, reporters and judges. Many end up in prison. Cops and dentists(go figure) suicide rates is among the highest among any group in the country. Most are high school graduates. They are never called for good news, most Americans resent them to one degree or another
SOF certainly seems like a much better and in many ways an easier deal.
Every day in the ghetto if you are doing your job you fight somebody. Getting shot at is a regular experience, it might only be a .22 or a .32 but, it'll sting a mite if it hits you.

[Ockham's Razor]

I'd like to vote for option 5 in NDD's Manifesto.

5 yr mandatory would be a hell of a deterent. You would have some touchy cases at first, guy running from a speeding ticket, etc etc. ACLU will whine. But, after those first arrests, and assuming the judges don't overturn them, it will sink it real quick.

[18C4V]

I want NDD to be the mayor of the city where I work at!!!! I like those rules.

Pursuit policies differ from dept to dept. Ours require that a supervisor acknowledge and monitor the radio. Before we got spike strips, every cop would try to get in on the pursuit. Now it's a race to spike the car.

I think the longest pursuit I was in was 45 minutes. The reason for the inital pursuit? The car was just used in a robbery. It was all over the city and ended up in the adjacent city. By the time it was over, a cop and the suspect got shot. After getting shot, the suspect ran 100 yrds and hid under a trailor. Guess who got to him first?

[GackMan]

Originally posted by 18C3V
Guess who got to him first?

a big mean dog?

[Noslack71]

NDD's ideas are brillant. If we are going to pass laws against stupidity, why start there? Cops don't have the time or resources to go after or lock up folks who are engaged in non-viloent crimes against property now (like car theft). Which criminals should we not put into prison so we can put those morons that don't pull over into prison. While they are chasing a violent bad guy, which cops should be desiginated to stop and pull over the assholes that don't get out of the way? Thank God our courts are not very busy, they can certainly handle the influx of new miscreants. Can you imagine the false arrest suits. We always felt that simply pummelling those that failed to pull over about the head, neck and shoulders was effective plus, it had the added benefit of reducing stress while educating the general public. NDD are you a closet lawyer? cause this sounds like something a starving lawyer would propose to boost his fortunes.

[Team Sergeant]

One additional idea. The LEO’s place a .50 sniper rifle on each pursuit helicopter. As soon as the asshole bad guy is seen running from the blue lights a .50 round penetrates the engine block. If the BG runs and attempts to “hijack� another vehicle, the sniper then places one more .50 round through the BG.

I agree with NDD, running from the police should carry a HARSH penalty. But running away and placing innocent lives in harms way is inexcusable and should carry some severe ramifications.

I do not care about “getting tough on crime,� I want to see Americans get tough on criminals instead.

Team Sergeant

[Team Sergeant]

Originally posted by Noslack71
nowhere near the training or assets that are lavished upon SOF.

You are killing me with this one....

I think if one looks at the stats, more cops are killed each year than SF.

I think if you check the stats you will find that a very incorrect statement.
While the LEO’s in the US number in the millions you’ll find the numbers of SF at any given moment in time is in the few thousands.

Team Sergeant

[NousDefionsDoc]

Damn noslack,

I figured you would get hammered for that little rant.