10-02-2017, 16:30
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#31
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Area Commander
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Northern Neck Virginia
Posts: 1,138
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I always heard to "control bleeding and treat for shock" and then transport ASAP.
How do you do that? Any damned way you can with whatever you have.
https://www.health.ny.gov/profession...psbleeding.pdf
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v/r,
LarryW
"Do not go gentle into that good night..."
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LarryW is offline
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10-02-2017, 17:09
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#32
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: OCONUS...again
Posts: 4,702
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"Mental" Shock...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trapper John
TS, I think Pat does make a good point though. I didn't think he was disparaging the people doing the best that they could. But, sometimes doing the best that you could is just not good enough.
Taking his point one step further, it would probably be a good idea to include the basic first aid measures as part of the general education process. CPR is taught in YMCAs and some public school programs. Why not teach "stop the bleeding"?
YMMV
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Most of the people there were experiencing for the first time, a traumatic event that they have never experienced before.
You can teach CPR, BAC or whatever acronym they use nowadays, however, performing those basic tasks under fire, in a fleeing crowd of 20k people just ain't going to happen under those circumstances.
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Guy is offline
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10-02-2017, 17:26
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#33
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Occupied Northlandia
Posts: 1,697
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy
Most of the people there were experiencing for the first time, a traumatic event that they have never experienced before.
You can teach CPR, BAC or whatever acronym they use nowadays, however, performing those basic tasks under fire, in a fleeing crowd of 20k people just ain't going to happen under those circumstances.
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I concur with guy. TCCC is not going to be trained on a mass scale and you’re not going to be carrying CATs to a country music concert. Traditional city medical procedures don’t work well in combat style environments. Triage, wound treatment, transportation. A single hospital would be overwhelmed. This is not a daily event here.
This is a tragic event and is going to get analyzed 6 ways to Sunday. Let’s mourn the dead first and analyze in a few days.
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"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." — Jeff Cooper
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miclo18d is offline
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10-02-2017, 18:46
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#34
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Asset
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: TN
Posts: 5
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Welsh Soldiers aided the wounded
Something positive from the vegas shooting. I Imagine some of them have been in combat. They were on break from training in Nevada. Link below.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-41476327
WH
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Warrior Healer is offline
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10-02-2017, 22:20
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#35
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Area Commander
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Lone Star
Posts: 2,153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miclo18d
I concur with guy. TCCC is not going to be trained on a mass scale and you’re not going to be carrying CATs to a country music concert. Traditional city medical procedures don’t work well in combat style environments. Triage, wound treatment, transportation. A single hospital would be overwhelmed. This is not a daily event here.
This is a tragic event and is going to get analyzed 6 ways to Sunday. Let’s mourn the dead first and analyze in a few days.
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Concur. IIRC from the early 2000 lesson-learned JSOMTC slides, the best medicine under fire is superior fire power. When the adversary has superior position and firepower, I suppose haul ass is a reasonable option. The slides show cases from Vietnam and Iraq where the helper (two to three) ends up becoming casualties too. Many of you have seen the slides I'm sure.
I recently did a pre-deployment TCCC/MARCH and I wouldn't want any of the new trainee doing TQ under fire
Having said that, in the context of safe area i.e. after the perp self administered lethal dose of lead, I agree with Pat. It's moving to see people holding and comforting the hands of the wounded/dying, but helping them would be preferable.
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"So we can suffer, and in suffering we know who we are" David Goggins
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Der, der Geld verliert, verliert einiges;
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Der, der das Vertrauen verliert, verliert alles.
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frostfire is offline
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10-03-2017, 05:05
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#36
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy
Most of the people there were experiencing for the first time, a traumatic event that they have never experienced before.
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That would describe me. I have been fortunate never to have been in this sort of situation - not even as a witness to a bad car crash. I don't know how I would react. I might be running like Dan
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...Bilzerian.html
One of my employees and her police-officer husband were at the event in LV. They left the concert a few minutes before the shooting.
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BigJimCalhoun is offline
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10-03-2017, 11:27
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#37
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Phenix City,Al
Posts: 124
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Looks like the Vegas shooter did the conversion to full auto, using a cheap conversion kit called, BUMP STOCK AUTO.
You can view on you tube , for AR-15 and AK-47 series weapon.
Sold by MilitaryGunsupply.com
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milkman is offline
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10-03-2017, 12:24
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#38
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: 18 yrs upstate NY, 30 yrs South Florida, 20 yrs Conch Republic, now chasing G-Kids in NOVA & UK
Posts: 11,901
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milkman
Looks like the Vegas shooter did the conversion to full auto, using a cheap conversion kit called, BUMP STOCK AUTO.
You can view on you tube , for AR-15 and AK-47 series weapon.
Sold by MilitaryGunsupply.com
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A bump stock is not a conversion to full auto..
You have no idea what a bump stock is,,
Refrain from UN-educated comments.
Bump firing is a technique where by the shooter uses a very lose grip on the trigger hand. As the weapon recoils it jumps around on the lose grip, thus jiggling or bumping the trigger finger.
With practice one can get consistent results, BUT because of the induced sloppy vibrations, very very inaccurate fire.
The commercially available (which I believe ATF OK'd) Bump Stocks have build-in springs that piston the stock during recoil. The added sloppiness can help, but in no way does it alter or replace any parts in the trigger, sear, hammer mechanics.
PS: I do not see your introduction, it may be one of the lost. Please re-introduce yourself.
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JJ_BPK is offline
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10-03-2017, 14:09
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#39
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Philadelphia,Pa.
Posts: 1,490
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Las Vegas Shooting Incident:
Prayers out to those people killed and or wounded at the concert.
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tom kelly is offline
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10-03-2017, 14:23
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#40
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Area Commander
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Page/Lake Powell, Arizona
Posts: 3,409
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Las Vegas is the most surveilled place on Earth.
How did someone get that many weapons and that much ammo up to their room without anyone noticing?
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Make a decision, and then make it the right one through your actions.
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GratefulCitizen is offline
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10-03-2017, 14:54
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#41
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Area Commander
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 4,792
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GratefulCitizen
Las Vegas is the most surveilled place on Earth.
How did someone get that many weapons and that much ammo up to their room without anyone noticing?
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Grandpa (who has been there many times before) pulls up to a casino in Vegas in a little SUV...more cliche than red flag.
They probably have plenty of video - but of a couple of baggage carts and grandpa...
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tonyz is offline
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10-03-2017, 15:42
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#42
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Area Commander
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Buckingham, Pa.
Posts: 1,746
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GratefulCitizen
Las Vegas is the most surveilled place on Earth.
How did someone get that many weapons and that much ammo up to their room without anyone noticing?
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Really? You can probably fit 6 or 7 AR's in a rolling golf club hard case, two thousand rounds and 50 thirty round mags in a large duffle bag. He'd look like every 60 something tourist in town for a golf outing and some gambling. No one would even bat an eye. You could probably make a trip back to his house to restock a couple of times over the next four or five hours.
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rubberneck is offline
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10-03-2017, 17:56
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#43
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 479
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rubberneck
Really? You can probably fit 6 or 7 AR's in a rolling golf club hard case, two thousand rounds and 50 thirty round mags in a large duffle bag. He'd look like every 60 something tourist in town for a golf outing and some gambling. No one would even bat an eye. You could probably make a trip back to his house to restock a couple of times over the next four or five hours.
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This post.
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"The wicked flee even when none pursueth". Proverbs 28:1
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twistedsquid is offline
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10-03-2017, 18:13
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#44
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 20,929
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GratefulCitizen
Las Vegas is the most surveilled place on Earth.
How did someone get that many weapons and that much ammo up to their room without anyone noticing?
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I've done missions with up to 20 suitcases in tow, usually 5-8. Never was I questioned about how many bags I was bring into a hotel etc.
We still live in a free country.
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Team Sergeant is offline
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10-03-2017, 18:41
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#45
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Area Commander
Join Date: May 2011
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,423
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Sergeant
I've done missions with up to 20 suitcases in tow, usually 5-8. Never was I questioned about how many bags I was bring into a hotel etc.
We still live in a free country.
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I suddenly had a vision of TSA cattle chutes on entering hotels as a "somebody do something!" response.
Bill O'Reilly was right. It is part of the unfortunate cost of freedom.
But it would appear that saying it is now "socially illegal".
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