My observations

[Pete]

Originally Posted by sinjefe

.....I get being mad at the GOPe, but for Christ sake.....

Being mad at them and still doing what they want didn't get us anywhere.

[abc_123]

Originally Posted by sinjefe

Why is it, when it comes to the President, people judge the candidate by the words that come out of their mouths rather than their actions / history? Trumps actions, including even fairly recent actions, show him to be no conservative (didn't say republican). Looking at Cruz history, both as a Senator and Texas Solicitor General, show him to be a consistent conservative.

People bitched incessantly how Obama's record was on display for anyone to see and why don't people just do a little research before they vote and here they are about to do the same thing with Trump.

I get being mad at the GOPe, but for Christ sake.....

I think that you have to give people some credit. Supporters know that Trump is not a 100% hard-core conservative. That's not exactly a priority, it seems like.

[Trapper John]

Originally Posted by abc_123

I think that you have to give people some credit. Supporters know that Trump is not a 100% hard-core conservative. That's not exactly a priority, it seems like.

You raise an interesting point. We are so divided and everyone is touting their label or labeling the other guy. Our problems cannot be viewed through a single ideological lens and certainly will not be solved with an ideological mantra.

At this point I guess I am saying we need an 18C that can blow some shit up so we can begin to rebuild.

If you break down the numbers Trump is drawing support across ideological lines and building what appears to be a broad coalition. That's a good thing IMO YMMV.

[Oldrotorhead]

The long term consequences of this election is Supreme Court appointments. Who do you want to appoint possibly 3 Judges to the Supreme Court?

[abc_123]

Originally Posted by Trapper John

If you break down the numbers Trump is drawing support across ideological lines and building what appears to be a broad coalition. That's a good thing IMO YMMV.

Like I read someone commenting online.... the "way it's done" is that in primaries candidates sell to the "base" then become more centrist in the General election and even more so once they get in office. Trump is there already.

And let's all remember that any promises made in the primary are tenuous at best. The Pres can only do so much on his own. Deals have to be made with congress and across the aisle. Or nothing gets done.

[abc_123]

Originally Posted by Oldrotorhead

The long term consequences of this election is Supreme Court appointments. Who do you want to appoint possibly 3 Judges to the Supreme Court?

Not Hillary. So I guess that means Trump. - How about Cruz?

[Oldrotorhead]

Originally Posted by abc_123

Not Hillary. So I guess that means Trump. - How about Cruz?

Cruz would be my choice, but Trump would be better than Hitlery I hope.

[Box]

So...
...for years and years, we keep hearing these empty suit political advisors talking down to the "tea party" folks about how the Republicans need to appeal to the center, serve the base, not be so far right, eat more spinach, give to charity, pretend to care about global warming, blah-blah-blah-fucking-blah.......................

A guy comes along. He isn't a "radical" anti-abortionist, he seems to be a fan of some degree of gubmint aided health care, and he goes against the grain on immigration - so he has appeal to 'conservatives' that aren't beholden to one cause. He says we shouldn't let people die in the street. Hell, he should be tarred and feathered for being friends with the klintons..
Far right conservatives are NOT happy with the liberal leanings of Donald J Trump.
And God Bless them for their stance.

...but someone remind me again how all of the right wingers in congress handled the planned parenthood issue?
oh yes... by allowing the funding to go through - Trumps the bad guy because he said PP does more than just give abortions
but "conservatives" in congress signed the check

...Trumps a bad guy because he said "not going to let people die in the streets"
but conservatives in a republican controlled congress funded obamacare anyway - THEY signed the check

a conservative SCOTUS said obamacare was okay
a conservative SCOTUS said that states couldn't decide who to marry because anyone can marry anyone


I wouldn't mind seeing Hillary klinton absolutely DESTROY the republicans in the biggest landslide in presidential history.
...I would love to see her win a supermajority in BOTH the huse and senate before her first term is up
...I would like to see her OUTLAW conservatism - with the help of her superDemocrat congress
...I would like to see her put George Soros on the Supreme Court
...I would like to see her slide BHO into the UN as the next Secretary General

Because aMEricans are too stupid to deserve any better.
Conservatives have spent the better part of the last 30 years redefining conservatism to the point were I don't even know what the word means anymore and conservative voters keep going back for more...
...because apparently "conservatives" must approve of the con-men that we are permitted to follow
Hell, according to Wikipedia I'm feeling pretty fucking okay with classic liberalism.

classical liberals believed that it is in the common interest that all individuals must be able to secure their own economic self-interest, without government direction

individuals should be free to obtain work from the highest-paying employers, while the profit motive would ensure that products that people desired were produced at prices they would pay. In a free market, both labour and capital would receive the greatest possible reward

yet here we are, pissed off that republicans have fucked us over and surprised that the "conservatives" in government cant get their shit together.

...sorry if that isn't popular but I'd rather see Trump drive us over a cliff than sit in the car and listen to the rest of the republicans and conservatives talk about how dumb I must be to let myself be taken in by a con-man - if I have to listen to one more con-man conservative try and tell me whats good for me I may have to suck-start my Mossberg.

an establishment politician preaching to me about getting sucked in by a con-man?
are you FUCKING KIDDING ME?

[DIYPatriot]

Originally Posted by Billy L-bach

Entire post

You echo my sentiments and I'd bet my next year's salary that you echo the sentiments of many others out there. It looks like some are willing to go ahead and set fire to the whole damn thing - to think that anyone would even consider handing the reins to HRC is beyond disgusting to me. She belongs in prison, yet here we are.

In order to defeat Donald Trump, The Weekly Standard’s Bill Kristol admits he is prepared to hand Hillary Clinton the Oval Office. On Wednesday’s “Morning Joe,” the Republican Establishment leader laid out his plot to deprive Trump of the 50% of delegates necessary to secure the nomination. From there, the idea is to go into a brokered convention and cut a kamikaze deal that awards enough delegates to an “acceptable” candidate (who will have won far fewer votes, states, and delegates than Trump).

The problem with the Establishment brokering a behind-closed-door deal that hands the nomination to a Sen. Marco Rubio (R-FL)79%
, is that the backlash against the Republican Party is almost certain to hand Hillary Clinton the presidency.

If a bunch of rich, angry GOP elites rob Trump supporters of their victory, the blowback will result in so many voters staying home in November, Hillary wins. As NBC’s Chuck Todd pointed out last night, at this point the delegate math is such that the only way to stop Trump is through this scheme at the convention.

Article

[SF18C]

Originally Posted by Trapper John

At this point I guess I am saying we need an 18C that can blow some shit up so we can begin to rebuild.

Just show me where the demo cache is and give me some Target Folders!

[glebo]

"If a bunch of rich, angry GOP elites rob Trump supporters of their victory, the blowback will result in so many voters staying home in November, Hillary wins. As NBC’s Chuck Todd pointed out last night, at this point the delegate math is such that the only way to stop Trump is through this scheme at the convention".


If the repubs do this....then they may as well go away.

The people have SPOKEN, I agree, to take that away just confirms what people are trying to say in the first place....

Now I'm not all Trump, but I will vote for him if nominated, any repub for that matter....

[abc_123]

Originally Posted by glebo

"If a bunch of rich, angry GOP elites rob Trump supporters of their victory, the blowback will result in so many voters staying home in November, Hillary wins. As NBC’s Chuck Todd pointed out last night, at this point the delegate math is such that the only way to stop Trump is through this scheme at the convention".


If the repubs do this....then they may as well go away.

The people have SPOKEN, I agree, to take that away just confirms what people are trying to say in the first place....

Now I'm not all Trump, but I will vote for him if nominated, any repub for that matter....

Lets not get too far ahead of ourselves... the registered Republican people have spoken. That's all.

"They" don't have to rob Trump of the victory at the convention. That may be too obvious and costly to their own political future and the future of the Republican party structure as it is now. A fallback, or more "moderate" position would be to simply undermine Trumps chances in the General election. Because winning the nomination without winning the General election is like winning... um... whatever Romney won.

To the establishment on both sides of the aisle (and probably the media too) Hillary is preferable to Trump. It will simply be another failed Repub run at the white house... and we're all used to seeing that lately. Besides a Trump failure in the General may help keep the establishment congress critters in office longer.

[abc_123]

Originally Posted by Oldrotorhead

Cruz would be my choice, but Trump would be better than Hitlery I hope.

Just saw this...

I was talking about a Cruz appointment for SCOTUS.

[Roguish Lawyer]

Originally Posted by Billy L-bach

So...
...for years and years, we keep hearing these empty suit political advisors talking down to the "tea party" folks about how the Republicans need to appeal to the center, serve the base, not be so far right, eat more spinach, give to charity, pretend to care about global warming, blah-blah-blah-fucking-blah.......................

A guy comes along. He isn't a "radical" anti-abortionist, he seems to be a fan of some degree of gubmint aided health care, and he goes against the grain on immigration - so he has appeal to 'conservatives' that aren't beholden to one cause. He says we shouldn't let people die in the street. Hell, he should be tarred and feathered for being friends with the klintons..
Far right conservatives are NOT happy with the liberal leanings of Donald J Trump.
And God Bless them for their stance.

...but someone remind me again how all of the right wingers in congress handled the planned parenthood issue?
oh yes... by allowing the funding to go through - Trumps the bad guy because he said PP does more than just give abortions
but "conservatives" in congress signed the check

...Trumps a bad guy because he said "not going to let people die in the streets"
but conservatives in a republican controlled congress funded obamacare anyway - THEY signed the check

a conservative SCOTUS said obamacare was okay
a conservative SCOTUS said that states couldn't decide who to marry because anyone can marry anyone


I wouldn't mind seeing Hillary klinton absolutely DESTROY the republicans in the biggest landslide in presidential history.
...I would love to see her win a supermajority in BOTH the huse and senate before her first term is up
...I would like to see her OUTLAW conservatism - with the help of her superDemocrat congress
...I would like to see her put George Soros on the Supreme Court
...I would like to see her slide BHO into the UN as the next Secretary General

Because aMEricans are too stupid to deserve any better.
Conservatives have spent the better part of the last 30 years redefining conservatism to the point were I don't even know what the word means anymore and conservative voters keep going back for more...
...because apparently "conservatives" must approve of the con-men that we are permitted to follow
Hell, according to Wikipedia I'm feeling pretty fucking okay with classic liberalism.



yet here we are, pissed off that republicans have fucked us over and surprised that the "conservatives" in government cant get their shit together.

...sorry if that isn't popular but I'd rather see Trump drive us over a cliff than sit in the car and listen to the rest of the republicans and conservatives talk about how dumb I must be to let myself be taken in by a con-man - if I have to listen to one more con-man conservative try and tell me whats good for me I may have to suck-start my Mossberg.

an establishment politician preaching to me about getting sucked in by a con-man?
are you FUCKING KIDDING ME?

Ted Cruz is one of the few guys in Congress who has fought against these establishment politicians you are complaining about. What you are saying, as I understand it, is that you don't care and you're going to treat him as if he's Mitch McConnell.

[tonyz]

In keeping with observations theme - Bill Kristol's statements in post above (reproduced below for convenience) exhibit just how undeniably rotten things are within establishment GOP. They would rather hand Obama a third term or worse via Hillary rather than listen to the people.

I'm no Trump fan (I do appreciate how he smokes out the issues and the weak/deadwood in the GOP) but would get behind him to defeat Hillary. Let's hope that cooler heads prevail - everyone must understand what is at stake this election cycle - and Hillary (or whoever) must be defeated. Three potential Supreme Court appointments will have quite an impact and last a long, long time.

"In order to defeat Donald Trump, The Weekly Standard’s Bill Kristol admits he is prepared to hand Hillary Clinton the Oval Office. On Wednesday’s “Morning Joe,” the Republican Establishment leader laid out his plot to deprive Trump of the 50% of delegates necessary to secure the nomination. From there, the idea is to go into a brokered convention and cut a kamikaze deal that awards enough delegates to an “acceptable” candidate (who will have won far fewer votes, states, and delegates than Trump)."