What would another 4 years look like under Obama and the Democrats?....see California

[Sigaba]

USANick7--

I agree that my argument is anecdotal. In fact, I make it clear that it is by making it clear I'm talking about my individual experiences. I would point out that it was offered in response to your anecdotal comment IRT the impact of Proposition 13 on California's public education system:

Originally Posted by USANick7

I went through the CA education system through elementary school.

This is to say that you offered a perspective based upon your experience in the California public school system, and then I offered mine. At the risk of sounding cheeky, I think we're drifting into the land of the double standard if only some arguments (i.e. the ones that challenge a widely shared interpretation) are going to be dismissed out of hand for being anecdotal.

Moreover, your summary of my premises is flatly off. As I make clear in post #10, the impact of Proposition 13 on the California educational system is "only part of the problem" in addition to the issues of illegal immigration and teachers unions.

Third, nowhere do I argue that Proposition 13 should be repealed. Nor do I argue in this thread that property taxes-or taxes of any sort-should be increased. Nor do I argue that increasing the budget is the number one item on the "to do" list for fixing the broken education system in California. Just because someone attributes factor A as one causal factor among many in a complex issue doesn't automatically imply that reversing factor A will solve the problem.

In fact, in post #15, I clearly state what I think ought to be done first: refine the standards by which teachers are evaluated. Moreover, in posts #12 and #31, I offer the POV that the task of solving the issues Californians face does not center around the state spending more money but instead the debate should center around the unintended consequences of a political system in which populism is a driving force in policy formation. (A discussion of this dynamic is available here.)

Fourth, because of your inference that I'm arguing something that I am not, I think you have overlooked a key point upon which you and I agree. The broader social, economic, and cultural contexts in which a student learn are crucial to that student's success. Verily, a central theme in post #31 is a comparison between educational environments in which students were encouraged to learn and those in which students were distracted by other issues.

Fifth, in regards to the negative impact of Proposition 13 on the California public school system, I offer the following to support my position that it has played a role: <<LINK>><<LINK>><<LINK>><<LINK>><<LINK>><<LINK>><<LINK>>

Sixth, hey, it is Sigaba! I put a lot of a meager R&D budget into picking this user name. (Well, it came to me while I was drinking a Starbucks mocha. But still, the effort diverted resources I could have spent writing a wry--but not bitter--note about Starbucks in-store culture at that time as well as a spry--but not salacious--comment about a good looking woman sitting a couple of tables over.)

[The Reaper]

Does parental involvement play any role in educational excellence, or can The Village do it all by themselves?

TR

[Sigaba]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Does parental involvement play any role in educational excellence, or can The Village do it all by themselves?

TR

IME, it depends. FWIW, the trajectory of my own experience went from parental leadership that was, at best, characterized as "salutary neglect" to a spiraling dynamic of intense opposition and intentional acts of sabotage. (Not for nothing is The Orestia my favorite work of classical literature.) Fortunately, onlookers in "the village" stepped in at key moments, I had some awesome instructors, and I had a subscription to the Newsletter of the Samuel L. Jackson Institute for Young Men to keep me focused.

My pie in the sky is this. I'd like to see a three-legged stool approach in which a student's parents, teachers, and "village" provide the legs and the student's own efforts the seat on which she/he can sit and focus on learning. (IMO, the most important of these three legs is the teachers. YMMV.)

[1stindoor]

Originally Posted by Sigaba

My pie in the sky is this. I'd like to see a three-legged stool approach in which a student's parents, teachers, and "village" provide the legs and the student's own efforts the seat on which she/he can sit and focus on learning. (IMO, the most important of these three legs is the teachers. YMMV.)

An interesting approach...although hardly novel in its concept, if you consider the "village" as the money garnered through taxes to support education. However, my anecdotal evidence suggests the most important "leg" of that stool will have to be the parents. The best teachers in the classroom still have only a limited amount of time with the student. The parents, grandparents, step parents, foster parents, etc. have a much larger block of time in which to influence the child to the importance of an education.

[afchic]

Originally Posted by 1stindoor

An interesting approach...although hardly novel in its concept, if you consider the "village" as the money garnered through taxes to support education. However, my anecdotal evidence suggests the most important "leg" of that stool will have to be the parents. The best teachers in the classroom still have only a limited amount of time with the student. The parents, grandparents, step parents, foster parents, etc. have a much larger block of time in which to influence the child to the importance of an education.

I would have to agree. From experience within my own family, with my kids. All 4 of my kids went through the same schools with the same teachers, for the most part. The youngest is an outstanding student in all honors classes. Her 2 brothers and sister were all lucky to graduate. What was the difference? Parental involvement.

The oldest 3 are technically my step kids. They lived in their mother's house during their formative years. She did not value education, because her parents didn't, and so on and so on. It was easier to lable them special needs than it was to.sit down with them every night to.do the homework, to show up in the classroom to help out etc. So they all struggled. Carl wasn't around enough due to deployments to make much difference. So he is at fault as well to some extent.

When Jake came to live with us when he was 15 he was doing third grade English. I just about lost my mind. We both showed up in his clasroom on a weekly basis to help out. We had weekly meetings with his teacher. We fought to get him mainstreamed as much as possible. He would get mad at me because I was pushing him so hard. I told him it was about.damn time someone did. When he graduated high school he was mainstreamed into 3/4 of his classes. He actually was able to go to college.

Jordan learned to read when she was 3 1/2. She was living with my parents at the time due to my remote. They valued education, which in turn made me value it. They helped in her classroom, they went on fieldtrips etc... When I got back to the States I did the same. I have never had to ask that child if her homework was done.

You can have the best teachers in the world, but if the parents don't care, it doesn't matter. Conversely you can have the shittiest teacher in the world and a very involved parent. That parent is going to ensure their child is taken care of. If it means changing classrooms, if it means being in the classroom more to be able to speak of first hand knowledge to the administrators, moving to a new school, etc... PARENTS are the key to a child's education

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by afchic

You can have the best teachers in the world, but if the parents don't care, it doesn't matter. Conversely you can have the shittiest teacher in the world and a very involved parent. That parent is going to ensure their child is taken care of. If it means changing classrooms, if it means being in the classroom more to be able to speak of first hand knowledge to the administrators, moving to a new school, etc... PARENTS are the key to a child's education

Concur.

TR