Very professional police officer.

[Badger52]

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

Let me school you then, if I'm in a heated argument with anyone and to the point where I'm real pissed off, and I slide my jacket to show you my holstered concealed weapon that's brandishing.

Yup, bingo. It varies by state; in fact, up here all the other person has to do is state they felt "threatened" and it's not brandishing anymore - now it's simple assault.

Part of the drudgery of the recent shall-issue law was taking all this into consideration. Most instructors of any worth/credentials using a recognized curriculum cover all this. (Many folks took classes to get non-res permits from other states before the shall-issue law passed.) As TS points out these terms matter because they have real meanings in court and can affect personal freedom and property (your money, lots of it).

Until the shall-issue law passed in WI there was NO legal mechanism for concealed carry. The law was completely mute on the subject of open-carry. It was the only legal recourse to someone, with the exception of active/retired LEO (via the LEOSA, which created another "special class" of people).


The overarching notion that simply carrying openly is brandishing is incorrect and a wrong starting point. Up here where so-called "brandishing" was the only method available to a law-abiding citizen, conduct & totality of circumstances is what's going to largely determine the outcome. And that means conduct by both the responding officer(s) and the subject of the contact. (Unless you live in certain areas of Milwaukee in which case you could get treated like you might have an explosive vest on, said behavior having caused them to pay out large amounts of bak-sheesh in civil judgements from time to time. Their Stasi-like Chief is still there but, hell, it's Chicago-Nord.)

[Leozinho]

http://www.volokh.com/2012/08/30/unu...mendment-case/




Inviting A “Stop and Frisk” By Openly Carrying an AK-47 Pistol with a Thirty Round Clip In a Public Park: An Unusual Fourth and Second Amendment Case

Orin Kerr • August 30, 2012 12:48 pm

The case is Embody v. Ward, handed down today by the Sixth Circuit in an opinion by Judge Sutton. It begins:

Tennessee law allows individuals with gun permits to carry handguns in public places “owned or operated by the state” such as “public park[s]” and “natural area[s].” Tenn. Code § 39-17-1311(b)(1)(H). The statute defines a “handgun” as “any firearm with a barrel length of less than twelve inches” that is “designed, made or adapted” to be fired with one hand. Id. § 39-11-106(a)(16).

Armed with knowledge of this law and one thing more — a Draco AK-47 pistol — Leonard Embody went to Radnor Lake State Natural Area, a state park near Nashville, Tennessee, on a Sunday afternoon. Dressed in camouflage, he slung the gun with its eleven-and-a-half-inch barrel across his chest along with a fully loaded, thirtyround clip attached to it.

Embody anticipated his appearance at the park would attract attention—he carried an audio-recording device with him—and it did. One passer-by spontaneously held up his hands when he encountered Embody. Two park visitors reported to a park ranger that they were “very concerned” about Embody and the AK-47. R.22-3 at 5. And an elderly couple reported to a ranger that a man was in the park with an “assault rifle.” Id. at 6.

Two more predictable things happened. A park ranger disarmed and detained Embody to determine whether the AK-47 was a legitimate pistol under Tennessee law, releasing him only after determining it was. And Embody sued the park ranger, claiming he had violated his Second, Fourth and Fourteenth Amendment rights.

For his troubles, Embody has done something rare: He has taken a position on the Second and Fourth Amendment that unites the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence and the Second Amendment Foundation. Both organizations think that the park ranger permissibly disarmed and detained Leonard Embody that day, notwithstanding his rights to possess the gun. So do we.

(someone gripes about usage of "clip" in three, two, one...)

[RB]

Nice story Leo! I guess the park rangers are educated now, eh?

I'll admit it kinda sucks that the park rangers are probably driving gators after giving up their suburbans due to the lawsuit, but sometimes education can be costly to an uninformed LEO.

As far as carrying an "unloaded gun".....well that's just an oxy-moron to me. It's a hammer at that point, not a gun. Would you bring a hammer to a knife fight? A hammer to a gun fight? Ummm.

The GREAT thing about NC is that there is no stop and identify with OC because you are not breaking any laws. Carry all you want, keep it in the holster in public until something bad happens. Legal.

OC is allowed and legal in NC because THERE ARE NO LAWS IN NC AGAINST OPEN CARRY. That's true in quite a few states as well. Because many states do not write laws saying you can't OC, you can. Look for an OC law on the NC books. There isn't one, not one. It's an "unalienable right" as given to us by God and our insightful fore-fathers to defend ourselves.

The last paragraph represents the OC advocate in the film. Although I think he's a jackass as well, he's out there advocating our inalienable right to carry a gun, a loaded gun ( well, KINDA loaded in Kali), whether it be OC or CC. If you don't raise awareness, they'll take your rights with unannounced board meetings, city council meetings, and state ordinance hearings and you'll never know it until you can't carry anymore and are arrested. You can't karry a loaded gun in Kali because Kali says you kan't.

Although I don't advocate his method, I do advocate his message.

[The Reaper]

6. Going Armed To The Terror Of The People

By common law in North Carolina, it is unlawful for a person to arm himself/herself with any unusual and dangerous weapon, for the purpose of terrifying others, and go about on public highways in a manner to cause terror to others. The N.C. Supreme Court states that any gun is an unusual and dangerous weapon for purposes of this offense. Therefore, persons are cautioned as to the areas they frequent with firearms.

[RB]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

6. Going Armed To The Terror Of The People

By common law in North Carolina, it is unlawful for a person to arm himself/herself with any unusual and dangerous weapon, for the purpose of terrifying others, and go about on public highways in a manner to cause terror to others. The N.C. Supreme Court states that any gun is an unusual and dangerous weapon for purposes of this offense. Therefore, persons are cautioned as to the areas they frequent with firearms.

I'm not sure if the highlight is your quote, opinion, or interpretation, but it's entirely inaccurate when applying the charge to OC/CC in NC.

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/northcarolina.pdf (Aug 17, 2012)

By common law in North Carolina,

it is unlawful for a person to arm himself/herself with any unusual and dangerous weapon,
for the purpose of terrifying others,
and go about on public highways in a manner to cause terror to others.

So this is a "3 pronged" violation. You must be armed, AND it must be your specific intent to use your weapon to terrify people, AND you must be on a public highway (which under NC law is defined as ANY roadway, sidewalk, or thoroughfare that is maintained by ANY governmental body)

If you do not meet ALL THREE of these criteria, you are NOT committing the violation of GAttTotP.

and: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...-Firearms-Laws


GAttTotP in NC is on the books but falls into the brandishing phase as mentioned before. NC Magistrates have laughed many LEO's out of court for attempting to use GAttTotP for folks OCing. There have been many many arrests/detainments for simply OCing, but the NC LEO's as well as the populace are becoming more educated towards this charge, thus the digital voice recorder and knowing where you stand during a street interview with an LEO.

IANAL, but a majority of LEO's that respond to MWAG calls these days are a whole lot more educated on how to handle that call than they were in, say, 2010 due to the vigilance of Grass Roots North Carolina and other involved organizations that choose to educate by legally OCing everywhere, handing out pamphlets showing that OC is legal, and holding OC rally's and lunches/dinners in just about every city/town in NC.

This started as a Kali thread, sorry to hijack with NC