Pollster: Americans are Pre-Revolutionary

[mojaveman]

Originally Posted by Broadsword2004

Call me delusional, but I think things would have to get REALLY bad, and even then, it would depend. The American people are generally a reasonable people, they aren't a bunch of people bent on overthrowing the government. You have to worry about a revolution if you have some fixed aristocracy at the top that is either abusing the people or just flat-out doesn't care about the plight of the people. America is a liberal democracy, with a government that is elected and accountable to the people. What would a revolution accomplish? We establish another liberal democracy? I don't think a revolution would appeal to reasonable people. The whole beauty of a liberal democracy is that if you don't like your government, you get to vote in new people every few years, thereby negating any need for a revolution.

The people who usually riot or call for revolution tend to be the ones with a major entitlement mindset, for example the protests in Greece where the people don't want to work more htan thirty hours a week and don't want to retire later than fifty years-old, and so forth. Such protesters are like the adult version of children. In poor areas filled with welfare recipients living off the dole, I could imagine similar protests or riots even, but not from the broader society.

In order for a real revolution to take place, things would have to get bad to the point that the country seemed to be becoming a literal failed state, was literally collapsing. But I do not think things will get that bad.

I won't call you delusional but maybe a bit young. All it took to set Los Angeles ablaze and for scores of people to lose their lives in '92 was a verdict that was read by a jury. I was working in LA during that era and remember the events well. Under the right circumstances civil unrest can come about very easily. Look at what's been happening in the Middle-East. It can all happen here too.

[Box]

Originally Posted by Broadsword2004

The people who usually riot or call for revolution tend to be the ones with a major entitlement mindset, for example the protests in Greece where the people don't want to work more htan thirty hours a week and don't want to retire later than fifty years-old, and so forth. Such protesters are like the adult version of children. In poor areas filled with welfare recipients living off the dole, I could imagine similar protests or riots even, but not from the broader society.

...kind of like the occupation of wall street?
...or Rosanne Barr calling for reeducation camps and beheadings for rich people that dont want to submit to the redistribution of their wealth?


We may need to redefine what "really bad" means so I know what to look out for since there are already headlines that read "Occupy Wall Street' Protests Turn Violent"

Nothing to see here...
...move along

[Dusty]

These are loons that factored strongly in the 2008 election.

These protests are a good sign. They display panic.

[Paslode]

BS2004,

We do have a portion of the Upper Tier that abuses the people and it doesn't give a good damn about the plight of the people. Their sole concern is profit and job security.

There is another portion of the Upper Tier who could make a difference, but won't intervene because it might hurt business.

If I am not mistaken the founders set up a Constitutional Republic, not a Democracy or a Liberal Democracy for a reason. And I do believe part of that reason was that in a Democracy everyone has a say. Democracy is Mob mentality and the mob can vote itself anything and will eventually vote itself out of existence.

The people who usually riot or call for revolution tend to be the ones with a major entitlement mindset

Really? I know you are joking.

What would a revolution accomplish? We establish another liberal democracy? I don't think a revolution would appeal to reasonable people.

No? Countless reasonable people who thought they did it right have had their pensions and savings looted. They have been lied to, used and abused. The system has failed and continues to fail them. And looting continues as we speak.

Revolution, what better way to bring the crooks to justice in the minds of those that have been used and abused.......and there will be someone out there to feed that high for ulterior motives.

In order for a real revolution to take place, things would have to get bad to the point that the country seemed to be becoming a literal failed state, was literally collapsing. But I do not think things will get that bad.

We are bankrupt, I would call that real bad, I would call that a failure......it is just that we have not admitted it.



Americans do tend to be reasonable people, and most of us are not bent on over throwing our government. And these days, those same reasonable people have a tendency to ignore loony-toon types and so-called fringe elements of society such as communists, etc. So much so that we allow loons like Ward Churchill, Piven, Van Jones and Bill Ayers to walk the earth and lead our children.

Why? We have jobs, We don't have time, It might hurt business...Bill Ayers, Oh he is JUST one person, he can't do any harm....so we ignore and leave for someone else to clean up.

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by Paslode

BS2004,

We do have a portion of the Upper Tier that abuses the people and it doesn't give a good damn about the plight of the people. Their sole concern is profit and job security.

There is another portion of the Upper Tier who could make a difference, but won't intervene because it might hurt business.
.

Chairman Mao would be proud.....

[Dusty]

http://video.foxnews.com/v/120567379...orth-carolina/

[Utah Bob]

Originally Posted by PedOncoDoc

He looks closer to post-menopausal....

Just sayin...

Aha! That would explain my mood swings.

[ZonieDiver]

Originally Posted by Dusty

http://video.foxnews.com/v/120567379...orth-carolina/

The dude in the burgundy tee shirt near the beginning looks like my brother-in-law! Greensboro is "Commie-Central!

[Paslode]

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

Chairman Mao would be proud.....

Of our bureaucrats, politicians and thieves like Immelt & Blankfein.........yes he would be.

[Box]

This is a group of mostly leftist looney-toon types I'd say, along with ignorant young people who don't really know any better (the kind wearing designer clothing and carrying iPods, iPads, laptops, etc...while calling for the downfall of capitalism and Wall Street). I do not think it at all represents mainstream America.
-Rosanne Barr is a flat-out communist-socialist though, she too doesn't represent broader America I'd say, just a small very radical fringe
-Ordinary working Americans are not going to riot.
-Also, ordinary Americans are not as dumb as folks like Jay Leno like to show them to be.

I agree with you 100%...

The "occupation" crowd is exactly how you describe them, they are a bunch of modern day hippies "...wearing designer clothing and carrying iPods, iPads, laptops, etc...while calling for the downfall of capitalism"

However, I am also sure that you agree that it was not "mainstream England" that fought against the King during the American Revolution...

People like Jay Leno and Rosanne Barr act as though mainstream America is too stupid to come in out of the rain (and they have something we dont, a media platform that gives them the power of perception.)...

It was not "mainstream Europe" that caused two world wars...

It was not "mainstream Islam" that flew commercial airplanes into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon... (at least that's what I have been told)

It was not mainstream America that bombed the Alfred P Murrah building in Oklahoma City...

It is my opinion that the occupation of wall street crowd is the modern day incarnation of the hippies that protested "the man" back in the 60's...
Now those hippies from the 60's are in government jobs fucking up our economy as they practice their favorite forms of corruption.

Where is the occupation of wall street crowd (with their ipods and cell phones) going to be in ten years? The Barrs and Sarandons and Baldwins and Moores and Penns encourage and even glorify this type of behavior. They have the benefit of using their celebrity status to lend credibility to their nutty opinions. They show up at events with an entourage and some TV cameras, they make a speech, incite the crowd, and then they retire to their castles while the peasants continue protest for the cause. (whatever that cause may be)

Again, just my opinion, but in the 60's the country wrote off "hippies" as being a harmless bunch of potheads that would eventually kill themselves off with drug overdoses and syphilis...
...instead, the hippies finished college and gave birth to a new generation of smarter, techno savvy hippies with better drugs. Smelly, dope smoking, misguided hippies that need "the man" to provide them with iPODS and cell phone so they can post to Facebook while they protest "the man"


Just my observation.

[Dusty]

Originally Posted by Billy L-bach

I agree with you 100%...
The Barrs and Sarandons and Baldwins and Moores and Penns encourage and even glorify this type of behavior. They have the benefit of using their celebrity status to lend credibility to their nutty opinions.

And Obama understands it. Community agitating on a national level.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...s-economy.html

[Intel Cop]

This link lays out some of the connections between the Occupy protestors and the big money liberals (including Obama):

http://kleinonline.wnd.com/2011/10/0...confrontation/

It is a shame that we don't see this type of anger/frustration pointed right where it belongs - the government - instead of towards the industry that almost single-handedly keeps NYC going and employs thousands in the region.

Broadsword, I agree with your assertions regarding the average American, but want to add a further point. The regular people who work, take care of their families, and go about their daily lives, maybe slightly affected by the current economy but not put out on the streets, are still incredibly comfortable and don't have to worry about necessities. It is highly unlikely that we would see European-style, large scale riots unless the "average American" began to have problems securing necessities, no matter how connected to and frustrated by the political process we are.

On a side note, I'm hoping to get some overtime from these protestors before they peter out or find themselves evicted from the private park they are currently "occupying". As of yet, I haven't been sent down there.

[Paslode]

Originally Posted by Broadsword2004

Who? You mean the heads of large corporations? People can push for additional regulations over corporate CEOs if they want. When have the heads of corporations not been solely concerned with profit and job security? That's why we have a framework of laws and regulations and other forms of oversight and limits on how corporations can finance politicians and so forth. Also, how do they "abuse the people?" That is why we have labor laws, regulations, unions, etc...where needed. Revolution isn't going to fix human nature.

The point is, we have created bureaucracies (FDIC, SEC, FHA, OTS, etc.) as safe guards and our bureaucrats and elected officials do not enforce the laws and regulations we have.

Originally Posted by Broadsword2004

Also remember, the primary purpose of a corporation is to be concerned over profit.

Even at the detriment of the nation best interest or national security?

Originally Posted by Broadsword2004

We don't have some fixed aristocracy at the top like France in the 1700s though.

Not exactly, but we do have at least two sets of standards were as the Rule of Law is selectively enforced. You and I both know that if we ran our business like the Federal Government we would be bankrupt and in court. If we mislead customers and took their money we would end up in Jail. If we don't pay our taxes the IRS will confiscate everything we own and put us in jail without much conversation.....unless you have the means to legally thwart the authorities.

Originally Posted by Broadsword2004

A Constitutional Republic is a liberal democracy. Liberal democracy is representative democracy. It is a democratic system that adheres to classically liberal values (human rights and freedoms, protection of the majority from the minority and the minority from the majority, etc...).

You are at least in the same ball park from what I read, though there may be subtle differences that set them apart. It deserves further investigation on my part.

Originally Posted by Broadsword2004

In modern liberal democracies, that's usually the case from what I have seen. That is why creating a European-style social democracy is dangerous over the long term, because it creates such a mindset among most of the population. Witness Britain recently. In modern America, the people who riot tend to either be very poor people who want to vent (often for reasons of racial tensions, such as the 1960s Watts riots or the 1992 LA riots) or just people with nothing better to do who want to cause trouble (like these Occupy Wall Street protesters charging the police).

Ordinary working Americans are not going to riot. If they are truly disenfranchised with the government, they will hold massive protests and rallies, but not riot. The government then will respond to their concerns or it will get voted out. Now if the government refused to do anything to help the people and was some fixed aristocracy or something and people were starving, then yes, I could see rioting occurring then.

Ordinary working folks are far less likely to riot.....but I do believe they would revolt if pushed, for say not listening to the wishes of the people and when elections fail to provide results........and it has been mentioned on several occasions on this board, by others that we are voting for the lesser of two evils and that increasingly there is little difference our two political parties.

Originally Posted by Broadsword2004

I would still ask them, "What is a revolution going to accomplish?" The system is obviously flawed, so its our job as a people to demand it get fixed (which the Democrats could claim is what they're already trying to do with the massive financial legislation President Obama signed into law). After the 1929 stock market crash, when the banking and financial system was virtually unregulated, it was discovered that massive corruption had occurred. So some heavy-dtuy financial regulation was passed. People were starving during the 1930s during the Great Depression, so various social safety nets were created. Revolution wasn't needed because the government responded to the people.

Obviously we have learned little, in the 80's we had the S&L crisis and 20 years later we have multiple boondoggles.

Originally Posted by Broadsword2004

Part of the reason peoples' pensions and savings were emptied is because of the financial crisis, which itself goes back to the government trying to give everyone a home through Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (i.e. governmental policy a good deal caused the problem in the first place).

The government did as you say, but they didn't create the fraud like junk MBS that were sold multiple times to investors.

Originally Posted by Broadsword2004

To some people perhaps, but ordinary Americans do not like extremists (or people they perceive as extremists anyway). Calling for revolution is an extremist tactic. Also, ordinary Americans are not as dumb as folks like Jay Leno like to show them to be. I think the average person with a family is smart enough to raise an eyebrow and say, "I am sick of the people running our government, but how is a revolution going to improve anything?"

People don't like getting screwed either. It is one thing to get screwed and have some recourse, but when individuals like Monzilo and Cassano are living the high life, you are scraping to make ends meet because your nest egg was pilfered and your Government is doing little to nothing to bring the crooks to justice......what is extreme?

Originally Posted by Broadsword2004

I wouldn't say we are bankrupt. We are in some tough economic times, with some big problems, but far from bankrupt.

How many centuries and generations will it take to pay off this debt? Could you operate your business in a similar fashion and keep doors open?

NO.

[GratefulCitizen]

Michelle Malkin's take:
http://townhall.com/columnists/miche...of_icapitalism

These protests remind me of something my grandfather said.
About thirty years ago, he was watching the television, listening to newsmen bemoan the early '80s economy.

He didn't understand it.
Growing up quite poor during the depression, fighting with the 1st Marines in Guadalcanal and Cape Gloucester, and struggling to provide for his family during the post-war recession and inflation must have given him a different perspective.

He just got up from his chair, shook his head, and said: "The problem with people today is they don't have any real problems".

[GratefulCitizen]

Originally Posted by Billy L-bach

Again, just my opinion, but in the 60's the country wrote off "hippies" as being a harmless bunch of potheads that would eventually kill themselves off with drug overdoses and syphilis...
...instead, the hippies finished college and gave birth to a new generation of smarter, techno savvy hippies with better drugs. Smelly, dope smoking, misguided hippies that need "the man" to provide them with iPODS and cell phone so they can post to Facebook while they protest "the man"


Just my observation.

If they let them assemble in large groups for too long, we might have a bigger problem:
A music festival.

http://www.southparkstudios.com/full...die-hippie-die