08-23-2010, 19:22
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#31
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NorCal
Posts: 15,370
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Nostalgia just ain't what it used to be.
Richard
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“Sometimes the Bible in the hand of one man is worse than a whisky bottle in the hand of (another)… There are just some kind of men who – who’re so busy worrying about the next world they’ve never learned to live in this one, and you can look down the street and see the results.” - To Kill A Mockingbird (Atticus Finch)
“Almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.” - Robert Heinlein
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Richard is offline
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08-23-2010, 19:24
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#32
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Area Commander
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cochise Co., AZ
Posts: 6,209
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As with most things bad for American education in the last 40 years, the ebonics outrage started here in California. Oakland to be specific:
Quote:
On December 18, 1996, the Oakland, California school board passed a controversial resolution recognizing the legitimacy of "Ebonics" — i.e. what mainstream linguists more often term African American Vernacular English — as a language. The resolution set off a maelstrom of media criticism and ignited a hotly discussed national debate.
For students whose primary dialect was "Ebonics," the Oakland resolution mandated some instruction in that dialect, both for "maintaining the legitimacy and richness of such language... and to facilitate their acquisition and mastery of English language skills." This also included the proposed increase of salaries of those proficient in both "Ebonics" and Standard English to the level of those teaching LEP (limited English proficiency) students and the use of public funding to help teachers learn AAVE themselves.[1]
Link: Ebonics
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It was probably just a way for the teachers' union to direct higher pay to some of their black teachers. This may be a similar situation.
Pat
__________________
"Hector Lives!"
"The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress." -- Frederick Douglass
"The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen." -- Dennis Prager
"The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it." --H.L. Mencken
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PSM is offline
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08-23-2010, 19:31
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#33
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Area Commander
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: OK. Thanking Our Brave Soldiers
Posts: 3,614
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Quote:
Originally Posted by casey
Is it just me or is this whole country turning into a fucking Bravo reality show?
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Casey Sir,
Am so glad someone FINALLY has the ba**** a-hem, to say it! Am wondering the same thing, and am sure I am not alone... 
Hmmmmm,
Holly
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echoes is offline
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08-23-2010, 19:41
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#34
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Tampa
Posts: 2,547
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And yet, even Beaver's Mom had to "conform"
__________________
Primum non Nocere
"I have hung out in dangerous places a lot over the years, from combat zones to biker bars, and it is the weak, the unaware, or those looking for it, that usually find trouble.
Ain't no one getting out of this world alive. All you can do is try to have some choice in the way you go. Prepare yourself (and your affairs), and when your number is up, die on your feet fighting rather than on your knees. And make the SOBs pay dearly."
The Reaper-3 Sep 04
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Eagle5US is offline
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08-23-2010, 19:49
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#35
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Area Commander
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Clay House Stuttgart, Germany
Posts: 2,682
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lksteve
Hmm...there are several variants of German...Bayerische, Schwabische, Tirolean, Hoch Deutsch, all spoken within the borders of the Federal Republic...there are several variations of French, even in France, from the Parisian dialect to the various provencial tongues...standard American English should be taught in schools, but criminals probably wouldn't feel obliged to respect the language any more than the respect the laws...using folks who are conversant in Ebonics for the purpose of law enforcement makes sense to me...I can tell you as a detachment commander in Bavaria, the hoch Deutsch I learned in school was limiting...and the additional gasthaus Bayerische I learned wasn't all that helpful in Schwabia...to me, having agents who speak the language of their targets is a good idea...
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Good post
Ich spreche Deutsch auch. Nicht vollkommen aber sehr gut.
I found the Northern Germans the easiest to understand. I had the most dificulty understanding the Swabians because they tend to hack the ends off of words. The dialect in the Allgau region of Germany is also difficult. The Berliners tend to speak very fast so one has to listen carefully.
I agree that using interpreters or linguists to aid in the enforcement of the law is a good idea.
Last edited by mojaveman; 08-23-2010 at 19:54.
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mojaveman is offline
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08-23-2010, 19:51
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#36
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 554
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What you talkin bout Willis
I have read and have to chime in....I am an AMERICAN (with slightly cocoa skin... who gives a rats ass), anyway, this reminds me of Germany in 1996 with the implementation of Rechtschreibreform. You can google-fu it if you want more information. But in a nutshell, the younger generation was getting so bad in school and verbalization that they changed things with the language to suit the uneducated. Now in 2010 even in my sister-in-laws bank in Weiden i.d.OPf, it is the norm to mix English and German words and to speak in a Baviarian/American vocabulary.
Whether an inner city kid, or a so called "country gangster", this is idiotic. Along with our demographic problem, we are allowing our youth to dumb down America. When will we stop letting the few make decisions for the masses?
__________________
DB
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Dragbag036 is offline
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08-23-2010, 19:52
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#37
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Tampa
Posts: 2,547
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragbag036
. When will we stop letting the few make decisions for the masses?
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I am hoping that this November will be a good time to start...seriously...
Eagle
__________________
Primum non Nocere
"I have hung out in dangerous places a lot over the years, from combat zones to biker bars, and it is the weak, the unaware, or those looking for it, that usually find trouble.
Ain't no one getting out of this world alive. All you can do is try to have some choice in the way you go. Prepare yourself (and your affairs), and when your number is up, die on your feet fighting rather than on your knees. And make the SOBs pay dearly."
The Reaper-3 Sep 04
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Eagle5US is offline
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08-23-2010, 19:59
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#38
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Area Commander
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: The Black Hills of SD
Posts: 5,945
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragbag036
I have read and have to chime in....I am an AMERICAN (with slightly cocoa skin... who gives a rats ass), anyway, this reminds me of Germany in 1996 with the implementation of Rechtschreibreform. You can google-fu it if you want more information. But in a nutshell, the younger generation was getting so bad in school and verbalization that they changed things with the language to suit the uneducated. Now in 2010 even in my sister-in-laws bank in Weiden i.d.OPf, it is the norm to mix English and German words and to speak in a Baviarian/American vocabulary.
Whether an inner city kid, or a so called "country gangster", this is idiotic. Along with our demographic problem, we are allowing our youth to dumb down America. When will we stop letting the few make decisions for the masses?
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If we don't become careful, Fiction WILL become Fact/Reality.
From the movie Blade Runner.....
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Cityspeak is the "street" language of the denizens in the Blade Runner world.
In the movie, the first person to say something Cityspeak was Gaff, when he first accosts Rick Deckard at the noodle bar. In the voice-over for this scene, Deckard says:
That gibberish he talked was Cityspeak, gutter talk, a mishmash of Japanese, Spanish, German, what have you. I didn’t really need a translator. I knew the lingo, every good cop did. But I wasn’t going to make it easier for him.
edit BackgroundMuch of the Cityspeak used in the film was devised by Edward James Olmos, during background research for his character (Gaff).
In addition to Japanese, Spanish, and German; Olmos also used Hungarian, Chinese, and French. Other street dialog in the film uses Korean.
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Non Sibi Sed Suis
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It's Good To Be Da King !!!! Just ask NDD !!!! 
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Sdiver is offline
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08-23-2010, 20:12
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#39
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NorCal
Posts: 15,370
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Quote:
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America is no longer the melting pot, it is the salad bowl.
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American Identity: Ideas, Not Ethnicity
http://www.america.gov/st/diversity-...0.5349237.html
Richard
__________________
“Sometimes the Bible in the hand of one man is worse than a whisky bottle in the hand of (another)… There are just some kind of men who – who’re so busy worrying about the next world they’ve never learned to live in this one, and you can look down the street and see the results.” - To Kill A Mockingbird (Atticus Finch)
“Almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.” - Robert Heinlein
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Richard is offline
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08-23-2010, 20:19
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#40
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Guerrilla Chief
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: The Nam
Posts: 777
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Wow, when I first read the title of this, I had to check if the category was right. Then I read the first couple lines of the article and had to laugh..AT FIRST!
Not for nuttin, I ain't suhprized on bih!
As a former LEO, I cannot tell you how many times, as a rookie, I would think "OMG, Do I have to go back to DLI for another language!?". My first case, a double stabbing, had two Lumbees in Hoke County. The girl's mother (Mama) wanted to know what hospital her daughter was going to, the detective was kind enough to translate for me. Within 6 mos (I AM a lil hard-headed Irish gal) I was speaking just like them....or else I wasn't serving any warrants or making any arrests. As far as ebonics go, it is streetspeak, as far as I am concerned. BUT, I can certainly see why the DEA and perhaps a handful of other LE agencies would need translators.
Fo shizzle, ma nizzle! 
__________________
A tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny ~ Aesops Fables; The Lamb and the Wolf
Am fear nach gleidh na h-airm san t-sith, cha bhi iad aige 'n am a' chogaidh
"He that keeps not his arms in time of peace will have none in time of war" Old Gaelic
Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property... Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them. Thomas Paine
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Saoirse is offline
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08-23-2010, 20:34
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#41
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 554
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saoirse
Wow, when I first read the title of this, I had to check if the category was right. Then I read the first couple lines of the article and had to laugh..AT FIRST!
Not for nuttin, I ain't suhprized on bih!
As a former LEO, I cannot tell you how many times, as a rookie, I would think "OMG, Do I have to go back to DLI for another language!?". My first case, a double stabbing, had two Lumbees in Hoke County. The girl's mother (Mama) wanted to know what hospital her daughter was going to, the detective was kind enough to translate for me. Within 6 mos (I AM a lil hard-headed Irish gal) I was speaking just like them....or else I wasn't serving any warrants or making any arrests. As far as ebonics go, it is streetspeak, as far as I am concerned. BUT, I can certainly see why the DEA and perhaps a handful of other LE agencies would need translators.
Fo shizzle, ma nizzle! |
Wow!!! As I read your post I couldn't help but laugh and remember growing up hearing my mother say "Do not bring that verbiage in my house". Now fast forward to 2002, I'm in the ER of Bayfront in St. Petersburg. We have just gotten in a female from an MVA. With no regard for her unrestrained child she says, " I be caint breaf, my chestasis" Now even in a calm ER and concern for the patient, nurses and doctors were leaving to keep from laughing. I can't even begin to type the Ebonics correctly while putting in a chest tube.
__________________
DB
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Dragbag036 is offline
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08-23-2010, 20:36
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#42
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Area Commander
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Southern California
Posts: 4,483
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I've got 99 problems, but 'Push 1 for English' aint one.*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle5US
I have said it many times before, and I will indeed say it again...
America is no longer the melting pot, it is the salad bowl.
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Just when was America a "melting pot"? Did all Americans have the opportunity to blend in?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle5US
We are already losing much of our identity as Americans. The language debate has gone back and forth for years.
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IMO, the debate has spanned centuries, not years. Historically, groups of Americans have invested a lot of effort denying other groups of Americans the opportunity to educate themselves formally. Now, that some of these groups have managed not just to survive but to thrive "on the margins," we castigate them for not embracing the thorny concept of assimilation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle5US
You want to maintain your own culture and pride in your "heritage", I am all for it. But there should be a RESPONSIBILITY to learn English along with it.
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Why? If a person can make it through her everday life without speaking a word of English, why should she be compelled to develop a skill set she doesn't need?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle5US
As an example, here in El Paso when I call my utilities company...now IN SPANISH, it says "To continue in Spanish, press 1, for English Press 2" - THEN in English, it says, to "continue in English, press 2".
I shouldn't have to press anything...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sdiver
Eagle,
I couldn't agree more with your post, especially the last line.
IMO, the downfall is the "Press 1 for English...Press 2 for Spanish"[.]
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What happened to letting the "free market" decide how business gets done?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sdiver
[T]he plethora of Spanish speaking Television stations (Tele-Mundo, Telefutura, ect.) that you see so rampant now-a-days. It gives absolutely NO emphasis for anyone coming in from "South of the Border" to even ATTEMPT to learn English. They know, that they don't have to learn English. Spanish will be PROVIDED for them.
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Shall we add a language and acculturation requirement to go alongside the "fairness" doctrine that our friends on the left side of the aisle champion?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sdiver
I think Theodore "Teddy" Roosevelt said it best, oh so many years ago.....
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IMO, Roosevelt's comments are less savory if one situates them in an understanding of the politics of identity at that time. YMMV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmap
Perhaps Ebonics and all the rest are a symptom of a deeper problem.
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Perhaps they are the symptom of a deeper solution.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sdiver
If we don't become careful, Fiction WILL become Fact/Reality.
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Has anyone been to downtown Los Angeles recently and taken a look at the reality? The future of America has arrived. It is called Little Tokyo.
My $0.02.
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* My apologies to Rick Rubin, if not Shawn Carter.
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Sigaba is offline
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08-23-2010, 21:00
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#43
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Tampa
Posts: 2,547
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Seriously?
No pun intended...but I am speechless at your post. Is this how you HONESTLY think? REALLY???
I actually typed out a long response...but I think the point will be poorly received.
I truely cannot understand your line of reasoning. But, that's OK.
Eagle
__________________
Primum non Nocere
"I have hung out in dangerous places a lot over the years, from combat zones to biker bars, and it is the weak, the unaware, or those looking for it, that usually find trouble.
Ain't no one getting out of this world alive. All you can do is try to have some choice in the way you go. Prepare yourself (and your affairs), and when your number is up, die on your feet fighting rather than on your knees. And make the SOBs pay dearly."
The Reaper-3 Sep 04
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Eagle5US is offline
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08-23-2010, 21:02
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#44
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Castle Rock, CO
Posts: 2,531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle5US
No pun intended...but I am speechless at your post. Is this how you HONESTLY think? REALLY???
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I don't post drunk, but that one had me thinking...
__________________
""A man must know his destiny. if he does not recognize it, then he is lost. By this I mean, once, twice, or at the very most, three times, fate will reach out and tap a man on the shoulder. if he has the imagination, he will turn around and fate will point out to him what fork in the road he should take, if he has the guts, he will take it.""- GEN George S. Patton
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lksteve is offline
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08-23-2010, 21:11
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#45
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Area Commander
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Occupied Wokeville
Posts: 4,665
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigaba
Has anyone been to downtown Los Angeles recently and taken a look at the reality? The future of America has arrived. It is called Little Tokyo.
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The reality of 50 or fewer ethnocentric states?
Welcome to the Balkans.
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When a man dies, if nothing is written, he is soon forgotten.
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