Cinco de Mayo vs American Flag

[sf11b_p]

Originally Posted by Sigaba

Interestingly, the items worn by the students do not comply with federal law on the display of the American flag <<LINK>>.

The fact that the students in question did not know these guidelines adds to my conviction that the gesture was less about a display of patriotism than about high school students being high school students.

YMMV.

That violation would apply to a great number of citizens who ignorant of the Code, simply want to display their support, patriotism, pride, of the country. But I get your point.

For that matter it could apply to the White House use for background.

Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker’s desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general.

[sf11b_p]

Seems the controversy grows. Students leaving class to "march for respect" threats against schools with similar names and parents keeping their kids at home. Also the servers for the local papers online are overloaded.

If the original intent was to grab attention they're getting it.

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local...-93065324.html

[TrapLine]

I guess I might be out of touch, but IMHO it is a sad day in the history of this country when the Red, White, and Blue is being referred to as controversial or incendiary on our soil.

[bandycpa]

FOXNews.com article:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/05/07...lag-flap/print

Tensions High at California High School Following Flag Flap

Tensions are rising at a California high school where five students were sent home for wearing American flag T-shirts on Cinco de Mayo.

More than 200 Hispanic students reportedly skipped class on Thursday and marched to school district headquarters while chanting "we want respect" and "si se puede" -- "yes we can" -- the Morgan Hill Times reported.

(add from Bandy - How much more respect do you want?)

"We did this to support the Latino/Hispanic community," Francine Roa, a 2005 Live Oak High School graduate, told the newspaper.

At least six Morgan Hill police vehicles traveled alongside the students, many of whom carried Mexican flags. No arrests were made related to the march, the newspaper reported.

Police have been told to be on alert for gang-related retaliation against the boys, according to Ken Jones, whose stepson, Daniel Galli, was one of the students who refused to turn their T-shirts inside-out when asked by a vice principal on Wednesday.

"We just want this whole thing to die down," Jones told FoxNews.com. "We're not trying to keep these flames firing."

The five teens -- Galli, Austin Carvalho, Matt Dariano, Dominic Maciel and Clayton Howard -- were sitting at a table outside Live Oak High School Wednesday morning when Assistant Principal Miguel Rodriguez asked two of them to remove their American flag bandannas, one of the boys' parents told FoxNews.com. The youths complied, but were asked to accompany Rodriguez to the principal's office.

The students were then told they must turn their T-shirts inside-out or be sent home, though it would not be considered a suspension. Rodriguez told the students he did not want any fights to break out between Mexican-American students celebrating their heritage and those wearing American flags, the parent said.

(add from Bandy - Why did he feel the need to do that? Had something similar happened before?)

But Jones said the preemptive action was unnecessary, and that Rodriguez "overstepped his bounds."

"The issue was, there was nothing going on," Jones told Fox News on Friday. "There was no sense of violence at all amongst the students, there was no conversation, there was no bullying.

"We just feel like the vice principal overstepped his bounds. He jumped in too quickly. We can understand he might be concerned something would happen, but there was no indication that was going to happen at all."

Officials at the high school, a 1,300-student institution in Santa Clara County, near San Jose, have not returned several messages seeking comment.

As of late Thursday, Jones said the five boys' parents have no plans to sue the school or Morgan Hill Unified School District, which has characterized the incident as "extremely unfortunate" and is conducting an ongoing investigation. Several attorneys have contacted the families offering to represent them pro bono, Jones said.

"We're keeping an open mind," he said. "We want to stand up for our First Amendment rights."

He said the families are seeking an apology from school officials and want the students' unexcused absences for leaving school to be expunged.

Galli said he frequently wears the American flag T-shirt to school and that he wasn't trying to incite any tension. Asked if he wore the shirt to make a statement related to the ongoing immigration debate, Galli said, "No, it had absolutely nothing to do with that."

District officials, meanwhile, sent a voicemail message in English and Spanish to all parents late Thursday.

"The Morgan Hill Unified School District does not prohibit nor do we discourage wearing patriotic clothing," the message from Superintendent Wesley Smith said. "The incident on May 5 at Live Oak High School is extremely unfortunate. While campus safety is our primary concern and administrators made decisions yesterday in an attempt to ensure campus safety, students should not, and will not, be disciplined for wearing patriotic clothing. This situation and our response are under review."

Asked if the district will be taking any steps to quell rising tensions at the school, a district official told FoxNews.com in an e-mail, "Our focus for [Thursday] was student safety. Students are safe and administrators are continuing to work through the investigation."

Eugene Volokh, a professor of law at UCLA, said the students are protected under California Education Code 48950, which prohibits schools from enforcing a rule subjecting a high school student to disciplinary sanctions solely on the basis of conduct that, when engaged outside of campus, is protected by the First Amendment.

If the school could point to previous incidents sparked by students who wore garments with American flags, they could argue that the flag is likely to lead to "substantial disruption," Volokh said.

"If, for example, there had been fights over similar things at past events, if there had been specific threats made. But if [school officials] just say, 'Well, we think it might be offensive to people,' that's generally speaking not enough."

Volokh said the students and their parents likely have a winning case on their hands if they decide to take the matter to court.

"Oh yes, it's almost open and shut," he said.

I think Richard has a point. Just judging from how the dots are lining up, the truth (as it is most times in life) is somewhere in the middle, and still has yet to be fully disclosed in this matter.


Bandy

[ZonieDiver]

All I can say is... I just love the end of a school year. Things ALWAYS get interesting. Or, to quote Roseann Roseanna Dana, "It just goes to show you, it's always something."

I think the V-P went too far, too soon. I can, however, understand his thinking in trying to be "pro-active" in this situation. It was one of those "damned if you do" and "damned if you don't... and something bad happens."

Oh... FIVE more days.

[Pete]

What Bugs me is just like the South Park Episode that was censored and the new show "JC" that will be airing.

It's the double standard of "being offended".

So 200 Latinos can skip school and march on the school HQ waving Mexican Flags? Because it's their Holiday.

So all the kids of southern heritage can stage a march on Confederate Memorial Day (number of days to pick from) and wave the Third National because it's their heritage?

Yeah, right. See how far that goes.

Maybe the teaching point should have been "This is America, you have no right to be free of being offended."

[Richard]

And so it goes...

Richard's jaded $.02

[CSB]

-- OLD MAN RANT --

I just want to say one thing about anybody who says to an American citizen "If you don't [fill in the blank] then you need to leave."

And that one thing is this:

"Where are they supposed to go?"

THIS IS THE PLACE YOU GO TO!

This is the United States of America.

Where else in the world can you go?

This is the place where people go who want to live their lives without an official government religion, without a racial prejudice, without a government controlled press, with a right to keep and bear arms as a private person, this is the place people came when coming to America was as risky and final as a one way trip to a Martian colony.

I will never tell an American citizen "If you don't like it, leave."
The same is not true of any alien.

For them, "If you don't like it here, go to your own country."

-- END OLD MAN RANT --

[Gypsy]

The day that someone is offended by the Colors of these United States of America and others are asked to turn it inside out, remove it etc. is the day that the people who are offended need to get the hell out of this Country.

[Surgicalcric]

Originally Posted by Gypsy

The day that someone is offended by the Colors of these United States of America and others are asked to turn it inside out, remove it etc. is the day that the people who are offended need to get the hell out of this Country.

Well said L, well said indeed.

Crip

[Richard]

A textbook example of how to make a mountain out of a molehill - classic.

Richard's jaded $.02

[Guy]

So all the kids of southern heritage can stage a march on Confederate Memorial Day (number of days to pick from) and wave the Third National because it's their heritage?

Every other fucking group is doing it! Just let me know so I be there in support.

I'll wear the US flag when and/or where ever I choose; don't like it? Bring lunch and a phone.

Stay safe.

[Guy]

This is the stupid that happens when you start all these sub-species.

You're AMERICAN first MFers!

An elementary school principal in Michigan is under investigation for authorizing a field trip last week for 30 black students to meet with an African-American rocket scientist. Students who are not black were excluded from the outing -- a possible violation of a state law that bans racial favoritism in public schools.

"The district is investigating the allegations of violation of the State of Michigan Proposal 2," a spokeswoman for the Ann Arbor, Mich., school district told FoxNews.com. "There was no ill-intent or malice in the principal and teachers planning this field trip," she added.

The principal, Mike Madison, who is black, said the trip was part of an effort to close the achievement gap between black and white students. But some parents whose children were not included say it clearly was illegal.

The controversy began last week when the 30 students, members of an African-American academic support group, were taken to hear the rocket scientist, Alec Gallimore, speak at the University of Michigan, where he is an aerospace engineering professor and propulsion lab director.

The goal of the trip, Madison said, was to close test score gaps and inspire the students to consider careers in the sciences.

But parents of students who were excluded protested, and the children who went on the trip were booed by their classmates when they returned to school.

Earlier this week, Madison tried to quash the controversy by sending a letter home to parents, in which he wrote:

"In hindsight, this field trip could have been approached and arranged in a better way.

"But as I reflect upon the look of excitement, enthusiasm and energy that I saw in these children's eyes as they stood in the presence of a renowned African American rocket scientist in a very successful position, it gave the kids an opportunity to see this type of achievement is possible for even them.

"It was not a wasted venture," he continued, "for I know one day they might want to aspire to be the first astronaut or scientist standing on the Planet Mars....

"The intent of our field trip was not to segregate or exclude students, as has been reported, but rather to address the societal issues, roadblocks and challenges that our African-American children will face as they pursue a successful academic education here in our community."

But Madison's explanation only fueled the controversy, and parental complaints turned into allegations that the school had violated Proposal 2, a newly enacted Michigan law that bans racial preference in public schools.

"If it was directed, guided, organized by the school district, they cannot say they are doing a field trip today for blacks only, or for whites only, or for Hispanics only or for Asians only," Leon Drolet, the former chairman of the Michigan Civil Rights Initiative, told the Detroit Free Press.

But district spokeswoman Liz Margolis said that bridging the gap in test scores between white and black students was a serious issue that legitimized the trip. Plus, she said, the field trip was paid for by a private donation.

"We don't feel that it at all violates (Proposal 2), but frankly, as with any group of students, if we identify a group of students that need support, we would be addressing that," Margolis told the Free Press.

"But we also have to have better education for our parents so they know why it's being done," she said.

A parent-teacher meeting to discuss the issue is scheduled for Thursday night.]

Stay safe.

[Richard]

IMO - another molehill of an issue which - due to poor judgment and mishandling by all involved combined with the inflammatory assistance of the MSM on a slow news day - has become yet another smoldering volcano of perceived cultural importance and a threat to our patriotism, pride, and Constitutional rights.

As a retired HS principal, I have some empathy with the school's administration as I saw many instances of such behaviors over the years brought on by wearing sports team clothing, college clothing, military unit apparel, etc.

Based on my experience and what 'facts' we have been given, these Live Oak HS kids came to school seeking attention by provoking an issue which turned into more than they had imagined. The bandanas (a blatant violation of dress code and overt disrespect for the school's policies http://liveoakhs.ca.campusgrid.net/h...and+Procedures) and the clothing were worn specifically for that reason - what's missing are any mention of what the kids in flag clothing may have been saying or doing to have brought it to the attention to the Asst-Principal and for the clothing to have become:

However, any clothing or decoration which detracts from the learning environment is prohibited. The school has the right to request that any student dressing inappropriately for school will change into other clothes, be sent home to change, and/or be subject to disciplinary action.
(http://liveoakhs.ca.campusgrid.net/h...and+Procedures)

In my experience, there is more to the story than has been presented and - because of the situation as it now stands - we will probably neither hear it all nor be willing to listen to it if we do.

As for the clothing issue, we adults never seemed to be able to wholly predict what items of wearing apparel would become an issue among the students and I kept a number of neutral (no logos, pics, slogans, etc) or school logo polos and tees in my office for occasions like this one. If I deemed your clothing was either in violation of the dress code or disruptive to the learning environment (which covers a variety of issues, but generally when it had been brought forth by faculty who had first encountered disruptive behavior due to the clothing in their classrooms among students), you changed into one of my shirts and returned to class. I kept the offending shirt and had the student call the parent(s) on my phone to explain the situation while I listened, and then I talked with the parent(s) to ensure they understood our school's position. I gave the student his/her shirt back at the end of the day and they had to take the shirt I had given them home to be washed and returned to me the following morning.

Now - refusing to change became another issue to deal with and I only had that happen one time in my 13 years as a Principal. In that instance, the student remained in my office and given several opportunities to change his mind prior to a parent coming to discuss the situation, received a '0' for any classwork due during the time he was out of class, and finally went home with his parent when she couldn't convince her kid he was wrong. The next morning, the kid came in with both parents, apologized, and went back to class - I never had any more issues with him.

A situation like this one is often a bit fuzzy, even when all the facts are known, and becomes murkier by the second as the rumors, innuendo, half-truths and overheard snippets of conversation or opinion all pile up and are whispered, IM'd, or tweeted around the community to create yet another mountain of unnecessary distraction to all.

That is my experience base opinion only and your opinion may vary - and so it goes...

Richard's jaded $.02

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Richard

IMO - another molehill of an issue which - due to poor judgment and mishandling by all involved combined with the inflammatory assistance of the MSM on a slow news day ............

Any Mexican Flag T-shirts at school that day?

As usual I have a problem with the MSM's reporting. I could only find mention of the cultural dancers that the school had come in and put on a program.

I would think in this case that would have been one of the first things asked of the school officials.

So once again was the school being "fair" or being "PC". Are students allowed to show cultural pride on their heritage days? Or only the heritage that the school says is OK?

I wonder what they do during Ramadan - and the "winter vacation".