Local engineer passes PE Exam

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by magician

Sorry for coming to this late, but my class had three Marines.

One of them crossed the street to SF after completing his enlistment with the USMC.

He works with Longrange1947 at this very moment.

magician,

I think many of us have heard of Marines attending the Q-Course with the intent of an inter-service transfer. I don't think many of us have ever heard of Marines auditing the Q Course.

TS

[magician]

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

magician,

I think many of us have heard of Marines attending the Q-Course with the intent of an inter-service transfer. I don't think many of us have ever heard of Marines auditing the Q Course.

TS

The three Marines who attended the course with my class completed all three phases (the full course in that era), then returned back to their units in the Corps. I remember at least one of them telling me that he had to "promise" that he would remain in the Corps and not reenlist in the US Army as a precondition to attending.

I have a friend, who is also a good friend of Guy's, who attended the full Q-Course and then was sent to SWC as a Marine to work at SERE in the late 1980's. He was a Marine, but he was also cadre.

I may not fully understand the way that you are using the term "audit." My feeling is, if a member from another service attends the entire course, and experiences it in all respects, it is difficult to say that he is "auditing the course." If a member from another service observes training, and does not fully participate, it is much easier to say that he is "auditing the course."

We all went through the course with members of foreign militaries. My class had a Pakistani Major, and I believe (been a long time) a Kenyan Sergeant Major. Also, an Israeli Major. They did the whole course, though I suspect that the officers did not receive certain blocks of instruction. This raises the issue of whether those gentlemen were "auditing" or "attending."

In any case, they all crossed the stage with the rest of the class and shook General Lutz's hand.

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by magician

The three Marines who attended the course with my class completed all three phases (the full course in that era), then returned back to their units in the Corps. I remember at least one of them telling me that he had to "promise" that he would remain in the Corps and not reenlist in the US Army as a precondition to attending.

I have a friend, who is also a good friend of Guy's, who attended the full Q-Course and then was sent to SWC as a Marine to work at SERE in the late 1980's. He was a Marine, but he was also cadre.

I may not fully understand the way that you are using the term "audit." My feeling is, if a member from another service attends the entire course, and experiences it in all respects, it is difficult to say that he is "auditing the course." If a member from another service observes training, and does not fully participate, it is much easier to say that he is "auditing the course."
We all went through the course with members of foreign militaries. My class had a Pakistani Major, and I believe (been a long time) a Kenyan Sergeant Major. Also, an Israeli Major. They did the whole course, though I suspect that the officers did not receive certain blocks of instruction. This raises the issue of whether those gentlemen were "auditing" or "attending."

In any case, they all crossed the stage with the rest of the class and shook General Lutz's hand.

magician,

IMO to audit is to attend a course of interest without receiving the "credit" or in this case the "MOS".

The Q-Course is nothing like Ranger school, which is a leadership school and those that successfully attend receive an ASI. The Q produces soldiers ready to go on to an "A-Team", where they reveive further training and become members of Special Forces. Also IMO, if you passed the Q-Course and never served on an A-Team you are not Special Forces. This has already been discussed at length concerning a certain female that threatened a lawsuit after she audited the Q-Course.

TS

[magician]

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

magician,

IMO to audit is to attend a course of interest without receiving the "credit" or in this case the "MOS".

The Q-Course is nothing like Ranger school, which is a leadership school and those that successfully attend receive an ASI. The Q produces soldiers ready to go on to an "A-Team", where they reveive further training and become members of Special Forces. Also IMO, if you passed the Q-Course and never served on an A-Team you are not Special Forces. This has already been discussed at length concerning a certain female that threatened a lawsuit after she audited the Q-Course.

TS

I agree with much of this.

Ranger School is obviously a leadership school. We all know that. Graduates receive an ASI, and usually term themselves "Ranger-qualified," or "graduates of Ranger School," with most people reserving the simple term "Ranger" for members of the 75th Infantry.

Before the foundation of 18-series, graduation from the Q-course also earned an SQI, for enlisted it was "S," and as I recall for officers, it was "G." Since the establishment of Special Forces as a Branch, graduates generally receive 18-series MOS's.

I also agree that graduates of the Q-Course who do not serve on an ODA should not be called "Special Forces." The problem, as we have all seen, is that a person who receives a certificate of course completion can be considered privileged to term themselves "SF-Qualified."

In the case of one of the Marines who went through Class 4-84 with me, he reenlisted in the US Army, and was awarded an 18-series MOS based on previous course completion. As I recall, he went through some sort of admin orientation deal that lasted a few weeks to get his records transferred over and to get him oriented to the US Army, and he was then off to 7SFGA, where I understand that he served honorably for several years.