Predator Pilots Suffering War Stress

[Monsoon65]

Originally Posted by SF_BHT

Hummmmmmm Hummmmmmm Hummmmmmmm
UAV??????? Unmanned Areal Vehicle Hummmmm Is that not a Plane? It Flys? Some one Flys it? Let the Video Geeks have their wings. Just do not think that it is the same as sitting in a F15 at Mach ###. I give them their due and am thankful that this is now out there but they are getting a little toooo AirForceish for me........

I don't mind if the video geeks get "wings", I just don't want them wearing the same ones I do, simply for the fact you mentioned: Flying a real aircraft is no way the same as flying a UAV.

Originally Posted by SF_BHT

They should bring their buts to IQ and Afghanistan and work out of an airbase there. Then I would feel a little better as they cry for a badge and Decoration.

Just my 2 cents..

And a well spent 2 cents it is. I think they'll have more appreciation for their job if they lived/worked with the guys they supported.

[SF_BHT]

Originally Posted by Monsoon65

I don't mind if the video geeks get "wings", I just don't want them wearing the same ones I do, simply for the fact you mentioned: Flying a real aircraft is no way the same as flying a UAV.

And a well spent 2 cents it is. I think they'll have more appreciation for their job if they lived/worked with the guys they supported.

They will be different it will be a Joystick with wings. SR and Master will have Helfires on each side.

[CPTAUSRET]

Originally Posted by Firebeef

Stressful.............I'm sure
PTSD??? I'm gonna throw the bullshit flag. If'n I'm wrong, come visit me in Hell.

I wasn't going to respond...But WTF?

I spent 3 1/2 years flying gunships NOE (25-50 ft AGL), in VN, when I hosed someone I was close enough to describe them. I used to catch hell from my CO for returning to home base with mud on my windshield, so I worked out a deal with Co ops, we set up a code whereby they would have someone standing by to get the mud, and sometimes blood off my windshield when I landed. We often had blood on the inside of the windshield, I lost 2 co-pilots in one day.

I once ended up with a goodly portion of my CE in my lap, he caught a .50 caliber round, and his leg ended up between the seats. I was shot down on several occasions, wounded more than once! We had 10 pilots, to man 5 Aircraft, which meant that everyone flew every day, my nick was "Magnet Ass" cause I always came home with holes in my aircraft. But you know what, that was my "F@@KING" job!! I put myself and my crewmembers between the Good Guys and the BGs. The lines were often indistinct, so I would at times hover directly over the good guys, and we sometimes put hot brass down their collars.

I would do it over again in a heartbeat, I loved what I did! The worst part of being in VN for me was the cold showers!

These guys are stressed, BS!!

Slicks are for kids!

[SF_BHT]

Originally Posted by CPTAUSRET

I wasn't going to respond...But WTF?

I spent 3 1/2 years flying gunships NOE (25-50 ft AGL), in VN, when I hosed someone I was close enough to describe them. I used to catch hell from my CO for returning to home base with mud on my windshield, so I worked out a deal with Co ops, we set up a code whereby they would have someone standing by to get the mud, and sometimes blood off my windshield when I landed. We often had blood on the inside of the windshield, I lost 2 co-pilots in one day.

I once ended up with a goodly portion of my CE in my lap, he caught a .50 caliber round, and his leg ended up between the seats. I was shot down on several occasions, wounded more than once! We had 10 pilots, to man 5 Aircraft, which meant that everyone flew every day, my nick was "Magnet Ass" cause I always came home with holes in my aircraft. But you know what, that was my "F@@KING" job!! I put myself and my crewmembers between the Good Guys and the BGs. The lines were often indistinct, so I would at times hover directly over the good guys, and we sometimes put hot brass down their collars.

I would do it over again in a heartbeat, I loved what I did! The worst part of being in VN for me was the cold showers!

These guys are stressed, BS!!

Slicks are for kids!

You are Great and that is the difference between Warrior's and the AF. Not sure what they are but I always found if I needed Tac Air from Fast movers Call the Navy/USMC, if I needed Gunships they were always there and the thing that the AF was good for was Chow..... OK they are all not bad but they are a different animal....

[CPTAUSRET]

Originally Posted by SF_BHT

You are Great and that is the difference between Warrior's and the AF. Not sure what they are but I always found if I needed Tac Air from Fast movers Call the Navy/USMC, if I needed Gunships they were always there and the thing that the AF was good for was Chow..... OK they are all not bad but they are a different animal....

Thanks, Brother. I appreciate the compliment!

[AngelsSix]

I wish my job was as simply as playing video games or joysticking all day..............I will trade those guys any day of the week.

[Monsoon65]

Originally Posted by SF_BHT

You are Great and that is the difference between Warrior's and the AF.....

That's the difference between AF computer operators and AF aircrew. They shouldn't be mixed. We drum it into the heads of the new kids that we are there to support guys on the ground and that is first and foremost the mission of the day.

I know when I'm in the AOR, it's actually a lot easier than at home station. I just fly, eat, workout, sleep, and read. I don't worry about a thing that's going on back at home because I have my A Game going on.

For the UAV operators in that states, it must be interesting. They are at the console and they are working their A game, but when it's over, they have to remember to pick up milk on the way home, and that the wife has a doctors appointment the next day.

I say pack them up and move them to the AOR. That way, they can keep their head in the game and not be distracted.

[The Reaper]

The AF UAV pilots are all former fighter pilots, at the service's insistence.

The Army UAV drivers I have met are mostly junior enlisted soldiers flying from the Box, and they are doing just fine, as far as we are concerned.

TR

[SF_BHT]

Originally Posted by Monsoon65

That's the difference between AF computer operators and AF aircrew. They shouldn't be mixed. We drum it into the heads of the new kids that we are there to support guys on the ground and that is first and foremost the mission of the day.

I know when I'm in the AOR, it's actually a lot easier than at home station. I just fly, eat, workout, sleep, and read. I don't worry about a thing that's going on back at home because I have my A Game going on.

For the UAV operators in that states, it must be interesting. They are at the console and they are working their A game, but when it's over, they have to remember to pick up milk on the way home, and that the wife has a doctors appointment the next day.

I say pack them up and move them to the AOR. That way, they can keep their head in the game and not be distracted.

At the AF insistence the Pilots are Pilots, former Jet Jockyes.... Yes or No? As far as I know it is Yes. TR also agrees.

I agree with you they should be packed up and work in the AOR. Les distractions and everyone else is there making the sacrifice they should also. It will let them have less distractions and be more focused. It may also cut down on the stress....... No decisions except work......

[Monsoon65]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

The AF UAV pilots are all former fighter pilots, at the service's insistence.

I heard that the AF is going to start forcing more pilots to do the UAV job.

Originally Posted by The Reaper

The Army UAV drivers I have met are mostly junior enlisted soldiers flying from the Box, and they are doing just fine, as far as we are concerned.

And the enlisted kids in the AF are green with jealously over that fact, too!

[Shar]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

The Army UAV drivers I have met are mostly junior enlisted soldiers flying from the Box, and they are doing just fine, as far as we are concerned.

TR

During his last deployment my husband was a UAV PL. The pilots he worked with were all enlisted, though I'm pretty sure some of them were NCOs. Anyway, I just told him about this whole thing and he'd heard about it and thought it was ridiculous. The guys he worked with were all top-notch, they were all very squared away, AND they regularly demanded they work through "crew-rest" and the rest of the funny requirements given for time-off in order to get the mission done. They were there to do a job and they did it very, very well. In fact, they did it so well that my husband had a love/hate feeling about his time as their PL because they needed so little in terms of supervision and he was just a token officer. He loved the guys, but hated feeling useless. They ended up piling a couple other jobs on top of him to keep him busy because these guys ran themselves. In the year they were there his crew never lost a bird due to operator error.

Army soldiers can fly UAVs extremely well (in theater even )

[SF_BHT]

Originally Posted by Shar

During his last deployment my husband was a UAV PL. The pilots he worked with were all enlisted, though I'm pretty sure some of them were NCOs. Anyway, I just told him about this whole thing and he'd heard about it and thought it was ridiculous. The guys he worked with were all top-notch, they were all very squared away, AND they regularly demanded they work through "crew-rest" and the rest of the funny requirements given for time-off in order to get the mission done. They were there to do a job and they did it very, very well. In fact, they did it so well that my husband had a love/hate feeling about his time as their PL because they needed so little in terms of supervision and he was just a token officer. He loved the guys, but hated feeling useless. They ended up piling a couple other jobs on top of him to keep him busy because these guys ran themselves. In the year they were there his crew never lost a bird due to operator error.

Army soldiers can fly UAVs extremely well (in theater even )

Hummmmmmm AF spends multi millions on Pilots (Officers) and pulls them out of Manned AC to have them fly Big RC AC. Army sends a kid to Boot, AIT and selects him to fly RC AC in theater at a cost of ? near to nothing. What is wrong with this picture. Army guys refuse to go on crew rest because the guys on the ground need them right now...... Must be an Army thing, they are still in touch with the person they are supporting on the ground.

AF Enlisted are jealous of Army guys, that is a new one.

I am not a AF hater. I have worked side by side with some great guys but in the Big AF picture they are not grounded as to why they are there. They are there to support the guy on the ground that is going toe to toe with the enemy. Sitting in Las Vegas and going home every night is not how they should be supporting the troops in contact. I agree with Monsoon65 that it is better to be in the AOR with less distractions.

[Chris Cram]

Originally Posted by CPTAUSRET

Thanks, Brother. I appreciate the compliment!

Sir

Thanks for being there. And with respect to the brass… such is life.
You guys brought my cousins’ home, one Army, one Marine, both riflemen.
(Both are Grandfathers now)

By the time I was 11B in Alaska, most of your associates were probably Army NG. We (the Grunts) were 100% comfortable flying with those pilots. RA seemed a little high strung (the career thing, we figured), but it was clear that the NG Pilots loved what they were doing, and they did it with precision and style.

With gratitude and the highest respect, thank you.
cc

[CPTAUSRET]

Originally Posted by Broadsword2004

That's an amazing story Sir, maybe you should write a book about your time in Vietnam!

I am comfortable with my "Brothers In Arms" on this website, so much so that a "War Story" will slip out every once in awhile...I am not so sure that I would/could put my story out there for the general public to ingest.

My wife is a gifted writer, she has encouraged me to write a book and has even volunteered to co-author it, it hasn't happened, probably won't!

My wife is the famous one in this family, and I am quite happy with that (do a search for Nancy Andreasen, then a further search for Nancy C Andreasen). There are a couple of threads on this site re Nancy, one, which afforded me the opportunity to speak very candidly with then pres. Clinton in the Oval Office.

And finally; I was just doing my job, a job I fought for, and loved doing! I figured every VC/NVA I planted accounted for one more young American who could then return home safely!

What's better than that?

[Defender968]

Originally Posted by SF_BHT

I am not a AF hater. I have worked side by side with some great guys but in the Big AF picture they are not grounded as to why they are there. They are there to support the guy on the ground that is going toe to toe with the enemy. Sitting in Las Vegas and going home every night is not how they should be supporting the troops in contact. I agree with Monsoon65 that it is better to be in the AOR with less distractions.

I agree that's what the AF mission is supposed to be, supporting the troops on the ground, however what the AF mission actually is, is to make more generals and get more funding, Col M is correct in that the AF is using this as an excuse to try to keep all the UAV's, "they're really horrible guys you don't want them"

Unfortunately the AF brass has lost is focus so badly and is so out of touch that they don't even realize how F*(#ing retarded this claim is. As a cop I've been to lots of scenes with grizzly bodies that have had lots of horrible things done to them by bad people, and these were innocent victims, not bad people that needed killing, and you know what, I don't have PTSD. So I'm sorry if these F(*^ing Sallies don't understand that the military's job at it's most basic level is to kill people and break things, get the F(*^ over it or get out and go work at Starbucks you freaking sheep. Next thing you know they'll want a purple heart for stubbing their toes going to get another cup of coffee. I’m so sick of AF office pukes and AF zipper suited sun gods freaking whining about how hard their jobs are and how it’s so terrible to be them with their flight pay and their 12 hour crew day, with their additional duties, in their air conditioned deployed locations for 2 whole months with their coffee shops, most of whom don’t understand the first thing about war, leadership, or anything besides flying, drinking and trying to get laid. Out of every 100 AF pilots I meet maybe 1, maybe, has his head out of his ass and has the slightest clue about the bigger picture, and what his job really is and why he even exists, and no fellas it’s not to get promoted, chase tail on Friday night, get more flight pay, or to look cool in your nifty pajamas, and that goes for all ranks of AF pilots. Though there are lots of great people doing hard jobs in the AF our/their leadership are all pilots and all equally out of touch with the fact that we are at WAR! You know now that I think of it, maybe if they actually went to the desert for more than 2 months they’re realize that….. No that gives them way too much credit.

So whine on you bunch of UAV flying nancies, while better men go out and make sure you have the freedom to snivel and go home at every night to momma.

Don’t get me wrong they (UAV pilots and pilots in general for that matter) do bring a great asset to the fight, it’s just I’m so sick of their freaking whining, man up or go home.

The Air Force, the viable alternative to military service .