Stealerships and Car Troubles

[echoes]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Crown and Layfayette are the two Ford dealerships here.

Both bad places to do business, IMHO.

TR

TR Sir,

Since first reading this thread a while back, my mind wondered if these places did NOT know that if you attempt to provide bad customer service to SF Men, the word IS going to get out and about?

Of all people, U.S. Service Men & Women are the ones they should be twisting around backwards to help...to put it politely.

Some how, am guessing these Stealerships just don't get it! GRRRRRRR.

Here is an idea... I want my tax dollars to go into a fund, like SS. Except this fund is for Military personel to purchase a vehicle for themselves, or their families. Any vehicle, at NO cost to them! The least we American citizens could do, IMHO.
Holly

[zuluzerosix]

One more thing thing, then I will give this block a rest until next time. The FTC has implemented Red Flags Rules. Car Dealers must comply with this. It is causing abit a havoc among car dealers-for some reason. They are fighting a battle they can't win. Our policy is already in place.

Red Flags Rules:

http://www2.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/bus...ts/alt050.shtm


Guide:

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/busi...heft/bus23.pdf

This is some good info, because it doesn't just apply to Stealerships. It is good to know what business are responsible for when it comes to identity theft.

[zuluzerosix]

Ok....Just did the fist cars for clunkers. Yep, as expected it is a Cluster-Chuck.


The dealers are fronting the cash. Then getting a rebate from the Gov. We all knew that would happen. Here's the problem, there is no real way to accurately account for the program on the sales contract or on our own accounting systems.

Here are supporting websites, and Ford Motor Company is providing support on their website as well.

www.cars.gov

http://www.cars.gov/files/day-one.pdf


www.ford.com (click on "Let Ford Recycle)

The information on the $4500 or $3500 government rebate is set in stone, but for trucks it is very confusing. There will be the final word on trucks around the 24th of July.

[Trip_Wire (RIP)]

I have of course over the years had 4 Fords, 1 Plymouths, 2 Porsche, 2 Audi, 2 Volkswagen and 3 Jeep Cherokees. Now I have two Lexus's a sedan (2006 GS AWD 300 & a 2010 RX 350 Suv.) We have had a Lexus Suv since 2003.

Of all the past cars their Companies and dealers I have had in the past none beat the service I get at my local Lexus dealer. We both actually enjoy going in for maintenance. If the service takes time they always offer a loaner. They have free soft drinks, milk, and one of those coffee machines that make all kinds of hot stuff.

I just can't say enough good things about their cars and the service!

Originally Posted by zuluzerosix

One more thing thing, then I will give this block a rest until next time. The FTC has implemented Red Flags Rules. Car Dealers must comply with this. It is causing abit a havoc among car dealers-for some reason. They are fighting a battle they can't win. Our policy is already in place.

Red Flags Rules:

http://www2.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/bus...ts/alt050.shtm


Guide:

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/busi...heft/bus23.pdf

This is some good info, because it doesn't just apply to Stealerships. It is good to know what business are responsible for when it comes to identity theft.

Yeah well...I paid CASH for my 2006 Mercury Milan in June 2009... did you read the word CASH... and I still had to prove who I was because I use a mail forwarding service for my address. There are NO flags on my name at the credit bureau. I had to answer some dumb questions.. "have you ever worked at any of these places?" "Have you ever lived on any of these streets.." I mean it was both lame and an insult. I made a point of asking the dude in the office IF I refuse to answer the questions will you still sell me this car I am paying cash for? He hemmed and hawed.. I came within a heartbeat of walking.. had the sales manager not been my son's best friends dad. I probaby would have.. however any place I go this is the new invasion of my privacy..
The guys asked for ID in addition to my drivers license.. I gave him my passport.. that alone should have proven who I was.. I swear, next thing they will want to know which hand I wipe with and the names of all my ex's.. geez..

Mercury ran like a bat out of hel all the way north.. 80-85 the whole way.. once I hit I-95. Hit the Pentagon on 395 at 7pm, thru DC and under the city out New York Ave and it was 7:35pm when I turned on the BW Parkway.. don't think I Have ever made ALL the lights like that. It was super. Nope, did not speed in DC, they get all upset and stop me for that sort of thing.. besides I have a radar detector.

Flew home to Florida to buy a car... I had had several pointed discussions with the salesman at Crystal Chevrolet. WE, my kids and all had already purchased three cars thru them or their Nissan dealership.. 2 cobalts and my son bought his Altima with them.. this would have been a 4th vehicle.. I told the salesman how much I wanted to spend out the door. He starts showing me cars. I settle on a Malibu.. not thrilled with it, but considering I Had like 4 days to do this and get home to Maryland.. I was going to just suck it up and live with the deal. Then I get to the money part.. suddenly my xxx out the door has jumped by a good 2500 and that was unacceptable. So I am in the little glassed in room talking to the salesman and my mom, who puts warren buffet to shame when it comes to money managing.. she has made me a wealthy woman playing the stock market with my money.. she is 90 btw, has all her own marbles land a few of the neighbors as well, she is about as helpless as a piranha, thought she likes to play the helpless old lady.. yeah sure.. not to mention the arsenal and ammo stockpile she has would make TS's heart flutter geez... well anyway.. the salesman, Gary and I and mom who was listening on my bluetooth headset were all talking about what we could work out..when the used car manager comes in and plays the vulture intimidation game..He was around six three, beer belly, white shirt and tie.. he stands over me, I was sitting. Says in a nasty tone of voice.. "well you were looking at cars you cannot afford why don't you just go home and come back when you have some real money" I just looked at him like he had grown a third eye.. mom who heard him.. said in m ear, "honey, we can do better than this jerk, you just come on home now you hear"... snickers.. I looked at both guys, dropped into a deep southern drawl like a 12 yr old and said, "my momma says I gotta come home raht now......" I looked from one jerk to another for effect, "will one of you guys give me a ride back to the house please?" That was southern belle speak for "well buckwheat you just lost a deal."..

I got home, called over to Gulf Coast Ford and spoke with Jim Preston. His son and mine are brothers born of two mothers, is the way they tell it.. Jim said, "I will send one of my boys to get you and lets look as what we can do for you."
Salesman drives up in this sage green Milan.. ten feet out of the driveway I knew that was the right car. Jim knew what my price was, out the door.. when I got to the dealership he told me that since the car had sat on the lot for an extra week he could take a grand off the price and was going to give me a 'military discount' of $500 since my son was deployed. I think in the end I got out of there for about $800 below my max..

OTOH, a month since i bought it one window switch is semi functioning and i am going to shoot the seat belt alarm if it does not acknowledge I am tied up and bound firmly in place in the drivers seat.. sheesh.. ding, ding, ding..I can hear it over the the Rolling Stones..


Speaking of vehicles... back in 1975 I bought a 3/4 ton manual shift 4x4 jeep pickup.. there were two identical on the lot, I chose the blue one. My husbands work buddy bought the white one.. My truck never saw a dealer or a mechanic, either him or me did the oil changes and any very minor stuff it needed.. I rebuilt the engine at 200k it is still a working vehicle on the ranch I sold in 1984. The white jeep spent most of its life in and out of the dealer and various mechanics..it was a lemon from the day that guy bought it.. luck of the draw I guess.

Back in 1983 my son's dad bought me a 240D Benz.. paid cash for that car too. It was like the energizer bunny. It just ran and ran.. great car.. last yr they made a manual shift. Was expensive if anything went wrong though.. new transmission cost me $6K... had that car from '82 till I came up to DC in 2005.. I was told that my car was unstealable.. mmm, tell that to the dipshit who appropriated it without my permission.. man I miss that car.. pale yellow comfortable to drive and good on fuel.. I could go from Tampa to Key West on one tank of gas. Coming back, going uphill, I could almost get back to tampa.. about 20 miles from my house.. great car.. In fact I came within a heartbeat of looking at mid 80-early 90's 360D's.. but got talked out of it by my kids.

Originally Posted by echoes

Of all people, U.S. Service Men & Women are the ones they should be twisting around backwards to help...to put it politely.

Why should they be treated any different than other customers?

Originally Posted by echoes

Here is an idea... I want my tax dollars to go into a fund, like SS. Except this fund is for Military personel to purchase a vehicle for themselves, or their families. Any vehicle, at NO cost to them! The least we American citizens could do, IMHO.
Holly

And then what...a fund so they can purchase a house, any house at no cost to them?

[echoes]

Originally Posted by WCH

Why should they be treated any different than other customers?
And then what...a fund so they can purchase a house, any house at no cost to them?

My sincerest appologies Sir, if my post was of any offense. Sometimes I can get carried away with my patriotism, having never served one day in uniform.

All I can do is say thank you, to you that have.

Holly

Originally Posted by The Reaper

I am sorry that the corporate leadership, unions, and greedy dealers have managed to wreck what was formerly a quality, world-leading US industry.

When was it that the GM, Ford, Chrysler, or American Motors produced those quality automobiles?

I've been a licensed driver for more than 50 years, my first car was a nine year old 1951 Ford, and I spent more than 35 years in the automotive field (service, parts manufacturing and distribution, and as a manufactures representative) and I can't recall a period where American automobile manufacturers produced better, more reliable vehicles than they do today.

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by WCH

When was it that the GM, Ford, Chrysler, or American Motors produced those quality automobiles?

I've been a licensed driver for more than 50 years, my first car was a nine year old 1951 Ford, and I spent more than 35 years in the automotive field (service, parts manufacturing and distribution, and as a manufactures representative) and I can't recall a period where American automobile manufacturers produced better, more reliable vehicles than they do today.

Sure they do.

But in the 50s and 60s, they produced much better cars than the alternative foreign manufacturers. The first cars I remember were my Dad's '52 Ford, my Grandfather's '49 Chevy, and my other Grandfather's '48 Plymouth. Dad upgraded to a '59 Ford, then a progression of Fords and GMs every four years or so. His last vehicle was a '62 GMC pick-up.

By the 70s, that was changing, and the American QC got progressively worse, as the foreign makers, particularly the Japanese, made the cars people wanted and made them better, in both design and quality. The impression that the Big Three projected was that we know what you need and want better than you do. Check the Consumer Reports, JD Powers, and other quality satisfaction surveys. The U.S. auto makers got an import tax levied on imports, ostensibly to allow them to undercut foreign pricing while they converted to build fuel efficient vehicles, then almost immediately raised their own prices by a matching amount.

In the 80s and 90s, they were consistently building poor quality cars of limited utility. They alienated an entire generation.

They have improved since then, and have closed the gap a bit with the foreign manufacturers (especially as the foreign companies built factories here in the US), but based on previous treatment (and the fact that there is still a gap), many of us will never buy a Big Three car again.

They may make a car that will last 100,000 miles relatively trouble free, rather than the 60,000 they used to last, but the Japanese make cars that will run 200,000 miles or more without anything other than routine maintenance. I had an uncle who put 450,000 miles on a 80s era Honda wagon over 15 years before letting his son have the car. I sold our Dodge Intrepid with 206,000 miles on it, and it was a wreck, after having body integrity, cooling, HVAC, steering, transmission, and engine issues. We spent several thousand on unscheduled repairs for it. We are at 175,000 miles on a Honda minivan with no significant issues. The last Ford Explorer I had started breaking down at 15,000 miles. I have a Dodge Ram in the driveway right now which started giving me engine troubles at 19,000 miles. It was in the dealer's service department at least eight times for the same problem under warranty. The dealer acknowledged the problem, but refused to fix it, and the regional service rep told me to live with it. If I take my Acura in with any complaint, however minor, they fix it right then, treat me right, and charge nothing. If it going to take more than an hour, they will usually offer me a loaner.

If you read the entire thread, you will see my negative experiences with the dealerships, management, build quality, warranty service, etc. I will maintain that poor products, bad designs, exorbitant labor costs, uncaring tenured workers, a bloated dealer network, and questionable business practices have ruined the US auto industry. I have been driving since the early 70s, in 60s cars, and have owned U.S. (all of major makes), British, German, and Japanese cars.

You fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. I gave Detroit many chances, they screwed me, repeatedly, and laughed in my face about it. Never again.

Hope that explains my comments. Your mileage may vary.

TR

Any product and any company is as only good as the customer support that backs it.

When a customer service rep takes the time to really listen and a mechanic the time to really try to fix the issue, not parts swap... when they offer you a loaner car... that goes a gianormous way to customer satisfaction.

If American manufacturers held their dealers to the standards that Lexus and Benz dealers are held to.... then we might see more Americans buy American cars..

Holly our service members are Citizens just like you and me... If you want to see something done for them and our Vets...lobby Congress them the pay raise they deserve.. pay them what they are worth.. which is considerably more than they make, most of them, now.. My son, a single guy, told me that after he takes what deductions he is entitled to, he is eligible for food stamps.. now add a family in there.. that suxs in my book...

Our Vets... no free houses, but force the VA to do its job.. to put service connected problems first in line.. instead the back or somewhere in the middle.. you want to do something for our guys... become a Vets Advocate.. take the time to educate yourself about the issues then advocate for a Vet needing medical care in a VA who is stymied by the system..

Hijack over...back to Stealerships...
AM

[echoes]

Originally Posted by armymom1228

Any
Holly our service members are Citizens just like you and me... If you want to see something done for them and our Vets...lobby Congress them the pay raise they deserve.. pay them what they are worth.. which is considerably more than they make, most of them, now.. My son, a single guy, told me that after he takes what deductions he is entitled to, he is eligible for food stamps.. now add a family in there.. that suxs in my book...

Our Vets... no free houses, but force the VA to do its job.. to put service connected problems first in line.. instead the back or somewhere in the middle.. you want to do something for our guys... become a Vets Advocate.. take the time to educate yourself about the issues then advocate for a Vet needing medical care in a VA who is stymied by the system..

Hijack over...back to Stealerships...
AM

Ma'am,

Please tell your son thank you for his service.

In any case, I still believe that Our United States Veterans should not have to pay for a car, a house, or anything. I am just twisted that way...and though my dearly departed Uncle, an Army WWII veteran would not like me saying so, I will not be swayed...

But rest assured Armymom, I DO take Our Vets causes seriously! If I didn't, I would not have stuck around on this board for so long, for I love Our Vets, Ma'am, am I am sure you do.

Holly

[sg1987]

I have had three Fords…presently drive and an F-150. I’m beginning to think that an illuminated “service engine light” comes standard.

[GratefulCitizen]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Sure they do.

But in the 50s and 60s, they produced much better cars than the alternative foreign manufacturers. The first cars I remember were my Dad's '52 Ford, my Grandfather's '49 Chevy, and my other Grandfather's '48 Plymouth. Dad upgraded to a '59 Ford, then a progression of Fords and GMs every four years or so. His last vehicle was a '62 GMC pick-up.

By the 70s, that was changing, and the American QC got progressively worse, as the foreign makers, particularly the Japanese, made the cars people wanted and made them better, in both design and quality. The impression that the Big Three projected was that we know what you need and want better than you do. Check the Consumer Reports, JD Powers, and other quality satisfaction surveys. The U.S. auto makers got an import tax levied on imports, ostensibly to allow them to undercut foreign pricing while they converted to build fuel efficient vehicles, then almost immediately raised their own prices by a matching amount.

In the 80s and 90s, they were consistently building poor quality cars of limited utility. They alienated an entire generation.

They have improved since then, and have closed the gap a bit with the foreign manufacturers (especially as the foreign companies built factories here in the US), but based on previous treatment (and the fact that there is still a gap), many of us will never buy a Big Three car again.

They may make a car that will last 100,000 miles relatively trouble free, rather than the 60,000 they used to last, but the Japanese make cars that will run 200,000 miles or more without anything other than routine maintenance. I had an uncle who put 450,000 miles on a 80s era Honda wagon over 15 years before letting his son have the car. I sold our Dodge Intrepid with 206,000 miles on it, and it was a wreck, after having body integrity, cooling, HVAC, steering, transmission, and engine issues. We spent several thousand on unscheduled repairs for it. We are at 175,000 miles on a Honda minivan with no significant issues. The last Ford Explorer I had started breaking down at 15,000 miles. I have a Dodge Ram in the driveway right now which started giving me engine troubles at 19,000 miles. It was in the dealer's service department at least eight times for the same problem under warranty. The dealer acknowledged the problem, but refused to fix it, and the regional service rep told me to live with it. If I take my Acura in with any complaint, however minor, they fix it right then, treat me right, and charge nothing. If it going to take more than an hour, they will usually offer me a loaner.

If you read the entire thread, you will see my negative experiences with the dealerships, management, build quality, warranty service, etc. I will maintain that poor products, bad designs, exorbitant labor costs, uncaring tenured workers, a bloated dealer network, and questionable business practices have ruined the US auto industry. I have been driving since the early 70s, in 60s cars, and have owned U.S. (all of major makes), British, German, and Japanese cars.

You fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. I gave Detroit many chances, they screwed me, repeatedly, and laughed in my face about it. Never again.

Hope that explains my comments. Your mileage may vary.

TR

Two words: planned obsolescence.
The big three needed turnover in the vehicle fleet to support big union contracts.

I still think the push to ban r12 (freon) was partially about cars.
Not only was Dupont's patent expiring (with r-134 waiting in the wings), but you wouldn't be able to recharge your car's A/C.
For certain areas of the country, an otherwise functional car without A/C is junk.

Complex emissions systems + smog standards turn many otherwise functional vehicles into junk (usually just a little while after the warranty expires...).

If your heads didn't have hardened valve seats, you were in trouble when leaded gasoline was phased out.
Studies concerned with lead pollution were touted, but the incompatibility between catalytic converters and tetraethyl lead was the driver for unleaded gasoline.
(I wonder if there was something else that might have worked...)

Propane/CNG conversions are simple, they can be cheap, produce far fewer emissions, and greatly prolong engine life.
Anyone ever seen all of the red tape necessary for a conversion on a modern car in Arizona?
Propane and dual-fuel weren't uncommon in the 60's (commercial) and 70's.
What happened?
(Oh yeah...we decided it was wiser to burn food.)

Next it will be "your car makes too much CO2, it is now banned -- the new GM model is compliant and/or has an exemption".

DDT, freon, emissions standards, peak oil (sorry nmap), greenhouse gasses...the truth don't matter.
Follow the money.

[zuluzerosix]

Originally Posted by armymom1228

Any product and any company is as only good as the customer support that backs it.

When a customer service rep takes the time to really listen and a mechanic the time to really try to fix the issue, not parts swap... when they offer you a loaner car... that goes a gianormous way to customer satisfaction.

If American manufacturers held their dealers to the standards that Lexus and Benz dealers are held to.... then we might see more Americans buy American cars..

Holly our service members are Citizens just like you and me... If you want to see something done for them and our Vets...lobby Congress them the pay raise they deserve.. pay them what they are worth.. which is considerably more than they make, most of them, now.. My son, a single guy, told me that after he takes what deductions he is entitled to, he is eligible for food stamps.. now add a family in there.. that suxs in my book...

Our Vets... no free houses, but force the VA to do its job.. to put service connected problems first in line.. instead the back or somewhere in the middle.. you want to do something for our guys... become a Vets Advocate.. take the time to educate yourself about the issues then advocate for a Vet needing medical care in a VA who is stymied by the system..
Hijack over...back to Stealerships...
AM

Echoes, not to hijack this any further, But I recently purchased a home using a VA loan. It went off with out a hitch. The only problem I had was finding a home in my community that could meet the VA standard for pest inspection. Had I been purchasing a new home this would not had been an an issue. Thge process was smooth and easy with little paperwork when considering the amount I thought I was going to have.

When I redeployed home form Desert Storm, I was a"pay hurt" just like everybody else. I had to make a quick jump, we did and I managed to break my back. I am 60% service connected. I have never really had a bad time with the VA. They are very nice and although they see quite a few people I never feel like a number there.

I just wanted to relate one VA sucess story.

[echoes]

Originally Posted by zuluzerosix

Echoes, not to hijack this any further, But I recently purchased a home using a VA loan. It went off with out a hitch. The only problem I had was finding a home in my community that could meet the VA standard for pest inspection. Had I been purchasing a new home this would not had been an an issue. Thge process was smooth and easy with little paperwork when considering the amount I thought I was going to have.

When I redeployed home form Desert Storm, I was a"pay hurt" just like everybody else. I had to make a quick jump, we did and I managed to break my back. I am 60% service connected. I have never really had a bad time with the VA. They are very nice and although they see quite a few people I never feel like a number there.

I just wanted to relate one VA sucess story.

Z6,

Taken to PM, sir. Thank you.

Holly