What is going on people???

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by Jack Moroney

I guess my take is a little different. If this is a problem why in the hell hasn't the chain of command done something to meet the needs of the troops in the first place?

This is the root of the question.

Why do the troops not have the issue sleeping pads or self-inflating Therm-a-rest type mattresses?

I have long maintained that the Clothing Sales Store should not sell gear that should be free issue to soldiers, like the flashlights, knives, multitools, pouches, ranger beads, camo sticks, headwear, insect nets, etc., etc. Uncle Sam shoudl provide it.

However, having many friends in the industry, it is almost like some troops circulate lists of companies to solicit free stuff from, and then write to them asking for some.

This request seems to be legit, but the larger question is, why do the soldiers lack basic issue items while deployed, especially when some seem to have so much (hard barracks, real beds, steak and lobster nights, buffets, movie theaters, permanent PXs, food courts with Subways, Baskin and Robins, KFC, Burger Kings, flush toilets, hot showers, movie theaters, etc.)?

TR

[Roguish Lawyer]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

This is the root of the question.

Why do the troops not have the issue sleeping pads or self-inflating Therm-a-rest type mattresses?

I have long maintained that the Clothing Sales Store should not sell gear that should be free issue to soldiers, like the flashlights, knives, multitools, pouches, ranger beads, camo sticks, headwear, insect nets, etc., etc. Uncle Sam shoudl provide it.

However, having many friends in the industry, it is almost like some troops circulate lists of companies to solicit free stuff from, and then write to them asking for some.

This request seems to be legit, but the larger question is, why do the soldiers lack basic issue items while deployed, especially when some seem to have so much (hard barracks, real beds, steak and lobster nights, buffets, movie theaters, permanent PXs, food courts with Subways, Baskin and Robins, KFC, Burger Kings, flush toilets, hot showers, movie theaters, etc.)?

TR

Given the rate of spending for the war, one would think that soldiers would not have these problems. I think the Pentagon needs an enema.

[Jack Moroney (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Roguish Lawyer

Given the rate of spending for the war, one would think that soldiers would not have these problems. I think the Pentagon needs an enema.

This is not a management(Pentagon) problem, this is a leadership problem at the unit level.

[Roguish Lawyer]

Originally Posted by Jack Moroney

This is not a management(Pentagon) problem, this is a leadership problem at the unit level.

In my opinion, those managers are not doing their jobs well if there are problems at the unit level.

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by Roguish Lawyer

In my opinion, those managers are not doing their jobs well if there are problems at the unit level.

Not necessarily.

Could be a poor decision writing in the packing list.

Many things may be left behind due to limited lift, expected availability of quarters, prioritization, etc.

Or it could be someone was stupid and failed to bring what he should have, which would be a the supervisory responsibility of his first line supervisor, who is a long way from the Pentagon.

TR

[Jack Moroney (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Roguish Lawyer

In my opinion, those managers are not doing their jobs well if there are problems at the unit level.

Pete Schoomaker does not need to tuck in Joe-tent peg when he has more layers of command between him and the foxhole than you have raccoon droppings in your backyard. The point is that this is a problem that I would expect to be handled by the lowest level in the chain of command and if they are unaware of the problem then they are not doing their jobs. The five sided concrete sphincter responds to issues and problems that are brought to their attention by the chain of command and not by an all seeing eye that sits on the chief of staffs' desk.

[Roguish Lawyer]

I still think of the Pentagon as an obese government bureaucracy that wastes my tax money and fails to do its job efficiently.

And to be clear, that is an anti-Government statement, not an anti-military statement.

[Jack Moroney (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Roguish Lawyer

I still think of the Pentagon as an obese government bureaucracy that wastes my tax money and fails to do its job efficiently.

And to be clear, that is an anti-Government statement, not an anti-military statement.

You'll get no argument from me, however there are parts of the Pentagon that work well-the problem is basically in entrenched civil servants that have been there forever and incapable of change. You would be surprised of the tales some of us could tell, they are beyond your wildest imagination.

[lksteve]

Originally Posted by Jack Moroney

...the problem is basically in entrenched civil servants that have been there forever and incapable of change...

+1...

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by Roguish Lawyer

I still think of the Pentagon as an obese government bureaucracy that wastes my tax money and fails to do its job efficiently.

Hey RL when was the last time we had an "efficient" war?

War is "controlled chaos" at best. During WWII IIRC, it took a thousand sorties to destroy one German factory, during Vietnam it took maybe 100 sorties to destroy one bridge, during Desert Storm it only took one sortie to destroy two bridges. We are becoming efficient but we're not there yet.

War=money.

[echoes]

Originally Posted by Jack Moroney

You'll get no argument from me, however there are parts of the Pentagon that work well-the problem is basically in entrenched civil servants that have been there forever and incapable of change. You would be surprised of the tales some of us could tell, they are beyond your wildest imagination.

Sir,
Excuse me for asking, but can these "civil servants" be replaced? If need be, where can I make a call...or series of?

Holly

[smp52]

Originally Posted by echoes

Sir,
Excuse me for asking, but can these "civil servants" be replaced? If need be, where can I make a call...or series of?

Holly

Being a civil servant, I can offer an opinion. Once past the probationary period (3 years), you'd have to move heaven and earth and a whole offensive line worth of dead weight before anything would happen. A start would be congressman or representatives. But since they're the ones handing out the money, resources, and the pork, it's all an insidious little loop. Retirement is usually the way most dead weight walks out the door.

Unfortunately, the Colonel is quite correct. Though, I'll throw in a caveat. For DOD, senior leadership is also involved in the decision making process. The disconnect occurs when in the military-civil servant relationship, carreerism enters the picture. And the larger the bureaucracy, the more inefficient it gets. In my last 3+ years of service, it has been an uphill battle to fight the "Quantity vs. Quality" mentality here in the acquisition field. My boss, one of the rare few who has been doing so for the last 30 years, unfortunately will be retiring soon. Heck, he was so unpopular in some places because he actually made people work and do their jobs, they threw parties once he left. Lean, six sigma, doing business more efficiently are mottos, and some senior leaders do take it seriously, but the military leadership moves on after their tour (2-3 years?), the civil servant is still there. Next commander to come in has a learning curve, decides on policies, and by the time thngs are set into motion, he/she is gone. Now, if that GS-15 or SES, who is the deputy/counterpart of the flag officer or O-6, doesn't believe in doing things differently, the execution will never be there. DOD is going to a new pay system, which is supposed to make things more competitive. We'll see how that pans out in the long run (performance based reviews/promotions).

DOD has plenty of money. The business of winning wars and putting resources where needed has been superceded by the business of justifying the larger budget and trying to spend it. Why give up money to an organization that would need it? If you do, your budget next year will get cut because you didn't need that money.

This problem is far larger than the tenured civil servant, it's how the Government works. Congress, executive branch, state, city, etc. Everyone plays a role. With all the equipment issues, think of how much could have been done if Congress actually curtials pork? In this case, we're talking about a simple pad for the trigger puller. We're our worst enemies...

Apologies for the rant.