Woman Is Termed Qualified For Green Beret Unit

[AngelsSix]

Hey , no sh!t guys, I understand both parts of the argument and agree with different aspects of both. And I wasn't calling you a misogynist personally Reaper, please understand I realize that I have a slanted point of view. And I do realize that there will never be a female SF. I just like to see who uses the age-old arguments. Funny thing, I have met more men that were just as whiny and useless as some of the women I have come across in the military. The bottom line here is that I personally feel that if a woman should be in the military, she should have to meet the same standards as men. I think that would solve the problem of women in places they do not belong altogether. I noticed that in most places women tend to be more of a distraction than anything else and believe me when I say these women love the attention.

I know of her. That was when SF was branch immaterial and all newly assigned offciers, docs, vets, dentist, chaplains, staff officers were expected to go. She was 7th SFGA'a S-1, I think. Long gone. Peyton Williams as an SF officer in her class that i knew.

I terrize the SWC Gift shop occcasionally asking "Where are the shirts that say "My mother was a green beret' "

Originally Posted by AngelsSix

As far as I am concerned, the Air Force has given me the freedom to be part of an operational team. We have deployed to the ME many times, including IRAQ and the Stan. The females in my unit either stand their ground and hold the standards or they are put where they are more usefull (there are plenty of desk jobs in AF SF). We have sent females outside the wire on more than one occasion (there were a few that were heavy gunners) that have held their own and pulled their weight (literally). I believe that a lot of what goes on in the military (from observing that in Iraq) is misogyny. I know that there are women out there that can keep up. Seems to me like there are men out there that can't handle that.

Army MPs do the same. That doesn't have anything to do with Special Forces.

NDD and The Reaper gave you real-life answers, and Razor pointed out the next step that women must achieve before they have any business discussing integration into Combat Arms, nevermind Special Forces.

[JLF]

Originally Posted by Greenhat

Army MPs do the same. That doesn't have anything to do with Special Forces.

NDD and The Reaper gave you real-life answers, and Razor pointed out the next step that women must achieve before they have any business discussing integration into Combat Arms, nevermind Special Forces.

A6,

Let me assist you on this one; I speak Air Force and I know a thing or two about women .

I fully appreciate your enthusiasm and I won’t even go into the whole enthusiasm isn’t a course of action speech either. I understand that you are smarter if not the smartest, quicker, faster, sneakier to boot. And having listened to the whole rant of many women in the past on the intense pain threshold tolerances that are realized through childbirth, I’ll even assume that you can take pain really really well. Otherwise why else would you continue down this path…

And, although you’ve mentioned your self diagnosed physical limitations, I’m just going to overlook that and chalk it up to your great sense of humbleness. You won’t catch me off guard on that one missy.

But my big question is, are you a scout or something for the main effort? I mean is this a probe? Where is the horde of other women who are self-proclaimed equal to the task… I mean certainly you aren’t all by yourself on this one right? You’ve got all those other ladies out there in cyberland geosynced to launch the invasion right? Did you think you were going to change a mindset all by your onesies? You didn’t intend to “roger up” all the women of the world without their consent to this did you?

Here’s the deal, you can talk about “girl-power” this and that all you want, hell I'm down for it but when your done I want to see it; show me the money… And, not just you but women as a unified effort need to do it… Hell, that would bring proud tears to my eyes to see a special group of women who say “no” to gender norming… Who refuse those “light” standards that are afforded to them based on being female. So next time you go for you body fat measurement or P.T. test make sure you tell them how you feel about all of this and bring your posse… Strength in numbers and all… And don’t forget somewhere in all of that to take a few minutes out of your day change the minds of Congress too because that’ll take a world shift in thought processes… Apparently, politicians (male or female) seem to care what the world thinks of them (most times more than the value of doing the right thing).

Bottom line: Actions…, actions speak louder than words. More actions less words and don’t forget to corral all those other capable ladies out there too.

I believe in you, now go out there and do it. You can start by having an immediate effect on those things within your current span of control. Maybe start by correcting the perception of those “other” women in your section. Don’t try to be one of the “boys,” instead make being “one of the ladies,” finally mean something worth while for once in history that will endure and overcome a generation of generations.

Or, if that provides to be a little overwhelming to you and you realize that you are on an island unto yourself then maybe consider a different approach…

Earn it… I have, I will and I will continue to do so. I know it’s hard to believe but most people don’t want to hear just how cool and capable I am… I usually have to prove it through demonstrated competency that is consistently correct, dependable and equal or better to my peers (otherwise we call it luck).

Good luck but I’m sure if you won’t need it. You'll have to forgive us simple men... we're only basing our ideas and judgment on historical evidence, common sense and reality.

P.s. I'll spare you my theory on what it feels like to give birth if you spare me your theories on something you've never experienced.

[JLF]

Now I'm just curious because throughout my small time here in the USAF I've heard these theories uttered by females before saying they could do my job ECT. To which I offer them an opportunity to show up for the initial phyiscal screening P.T. test. Many decline all others have failed.

My question to you is, "do Army females give you this same theory?" I mean if I had a nickle for every time a female said this thing to me... well I'd be somewhere north of a buck fifty and I could shop the value menu at Burger King for a soft drink and a side of ketchup.

Just curious. Grass is green on the other side kind of thing and all...

[x SF med]

The IDF has experimented with limited roles of women in combat units - and the Sabras have performed pretty well, under the scope allowed to them. BUT, there are no female commandos and no female parachute infantry, or regular infantry for that matter. There are female tankers, but the Israelis have found that no matter how motivated well trained and equipped their Sabras are , they are not Ruck Humping Infantry /Commandos.

A6- no bashing involved, just facts - and yes there are female field intelligence agents in Israel - but they are not door kickers.

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by JLF

Now I'm just curious because throughout my small time here in the USAF I've heard these theories uttered by females before saying they could do my job ECT. To which I offer them an opportunity to show up for the initial phyiscal screening P.T. test. Many decline all others have failed.

My question to you is, "do Army females give you this same theory?" I mean if I had a nickle for every time a female said this thing to me... well I'd be somewhere north of a buck fifty and I could shop the value menu at Burger King for a soft drink and a side of ketchup.

Just curious. Grass is green on the other side kind of thing and all...

JLF,

After Desert Storm Special Forces went before a select panel of congress and put an end to females attempting to join our unit.

It might also be because of our missions, when we're not on high risk hostage rescue mission we might be dropping deep behind ememy lines for a few months to overthrow a government. Or sent to capture or kill a very high value terrorist/ target. Very few men on the planet actually desire to do what we do. 99.9999% of the women would not even think to attempt it.

And unlike the AF we Army combat arms types interact very little with military females, so to answer your question, no, we don't get the questions you seem to from females.

Team Sergeant

[Matta mile]

"no, we don't get the questions you seem to from females" T.S.

And, thats a Good Thing!
MM

[NousDefionsDoc]

"When you can do what I do, you can go where I go."

[Team Sergeant]

Seems Kate Wilder is stumping for Blow Job bill clinton's wife.

Seems Kate Wilder is using google to "find her name on the internet" and set the story straight.

It would seem she cannot find her way here to ProfessionalSoldiers.com, we must not be getting picked up on google.

Seems Kate is about to cash in on her "Green Beret" as she states she's writing a book. I'm betting the book comes out just before the 2008 presidential nomination. Funny how that works.

I wonder if Kate knows the "Green Beret" that john kerry "rescued"?

Consider this an invite Kate, there's a few hundred Special Forces soldiers on this website just waiting to ask you a few questions.

http://www.vajoe.com/board/viewtopic.php?id=9060&p=1

[Richard]

"COO" Kennedy and Katie Wilder in support of HRC--that confirms my determination to "never" vote for HRC. I hope Ola Mize will weigh in on the Kate Wilder issue if she gets out of control and they start parading her around the campaign trail as an accepted member of the SF brotherhood. Hers is one funeral I would not attend.

Nostalgic note-During all the SFOC foofarah that she and her attorney kicked up, I was DET CDR ODA-726 and remember the t-shirt you could buy on Yadkin Road that had Kate wilder's face as if it was being viewed through an ART-2 reticle. Joe Lutz said he'd throw any soldier in his command out if he caught one of us wearing it. I wish now that I had bought one just to have today!

[Retired W4]

Excerpt from: http://www.vajoe.com/board/viewtopic.php?id=9060&p=1

"keep in mind that all I wanted was a slot in an army school....I wasn't asking to be put on an A-team"

I guess she didn't want to do any of that SF stuff, she just wanted to attend the school so she could... do what? Maybe she was trying to "maintain her political viability". Humm, where have I heard that before?

"I applied to attend the Special Forces Officer Course several times and was turned down by the school. I later re-applied and this time sent my application to DA ..."

I would like to see the endorsements on that application. The real endorsements probably came in through the back door of some Congressional office.

I'm sure her google alert is screaming PS.COM! Maybe when she is done with the softball stuff at vajoe she will honor us with a post. Hope she reads the stickies first.

[Snaquebite]

I remember all the uproar. She was caught (with 2 other guys) breaking the rules and cheating. She turned it into a sex discrimination thing and the other two accepted their medicine..."The boot".

The only green beret ever awarded to a woman came from a judge. According to retired Special Forces officer Lt. Col. William E. Bailey, Cpt. Kathleen Wilder attended all three phases of Special Forces training in the summer of 1980, but during the final week "she and two male students were caught caching their rucksacks. That is, she and her compatriots were not carrying the rucksacks as required by the instructors, but hiding them to pick up at a later time and date in what is referred to as a Mission Support Site. All three were dropped from the course, ostensibly for cheating." The men accepted the outcome, Bailey has written, but Wilder got a lawyer who argued she was a victim of sex discrimination. The court agreed, ordering that she receive a course completion certificate. She never spent a day in an actual Special Forces unit, according to Bailey, but she continues to play off her reputation as "the nation's only female Green Beret."

http://weeklystandard.com/Content/Pu...frnuq.asp?pg=2

[kgoerz]

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

I went through in 83. The stories I heard was it was a "joke" that went wrong.

I also heard she didn't make any of the ruck marches with the proper weight. It was more of a " guided tour" of the Q Course for her. We can thank her for getting one thing done, she closed the book on any other females attending the Q-Course.

She must have had some dirt on someone.........

TS

There were rumors about her when I went through the course in 83. Some were, not very flattering re: her character and use of gender for advancement. (ok, does that get me a PC prize of some sort - NDD I think we went through the course at the same time, maybe the same class)
__________________

Where any of you in the all NCO Class in 83?

[Team Sergeant]

Kate Wilder was here and one of you mean Green Berets pissed her off!!!!!




k8wilder: "As for the other discussion forum that you provided the link to, I've just now checked it out. I've never seen it before, and have no intensions of visiting it again. But I see that they've quoted an individual whose comments I have seen before and who, for whatever his reasons are, pretends to know my story...which he does not. Everything he has stated about me is a falsehood, and it is because of his statements that I've found it necessary to do a Google Alert. While we are still deciding what to do about this individual, I will leave all of you with this one piece of advice: in this country we have laws to protect people from defamation of character."

http://www.vajoe.com/board/viewtopic.php?id=9060&p=2