swim class in phase II - Page 3

**Kyobanim** · 08-28-2006, 12:13

Here's a little info on why you have to swim. I don't know how dated this is but most of the other information on the page looks accurate. Take it FWIW.
From the Special Operations Reference Manual.

Quote:

Water Infiltration/Exfiltration

All water infiltration techniques may be initiated from surface or sub-surface mother craft, dropped by parachute from fixed wing aircraft, or delivered by rotary wing aircraft. Three ODAs per SFG can infiltrate or exfiltrate using closed circuit breathing equipment. Three ODAs per SFG are capable of utilizing open circuit breathing equipment for non-tactical applications (i.e., ship bottom searches and recovery operations). Nine ODAs per SFG are trained to infiltrate/exfiltrate by combat rubber raiding craft (CRRC). Twelve ODAs per SFG can infiltrate/exfiltrate by surface swim techniques. All surface swim operations are limited to sea states not to exceed 3 foot chop and 4 foot swell. Surface swim operations will not be conducted against currents in excess of 1 knot.

**Pete** · 08-28-2006, 12:30

Well after Kyobanim's post this would be a good time to tell about the time I was pinned to the side door of a Submarine while it was underway.

Told that to a pre-scuba class one time and one guy picked up his gear and turned in in on the spot.

If you want the rest of the story you'll have to make it through the course and get together with some of us old farts at the GB Club.

In the middle of nowhere, with limited help around or at O-Dark thirty is not the time to find out you were weaker in some areas than you thought. Really bad for the team also.

Pete

Why is it that the wrench likes to get thrown into things at around 0230 Hours?

x SF med · 08-28-2006, 12:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyobanim

Here's a little info on why you have to swim. I don't know how dated this is but most of the other information on the page looks accurate. Take it FWIW.
From the Special Operations Reference Manual.

Kyo-
looks like what I remember - but my brain got frozen a few times, and water logged a few more than that. Ah yes, rubber pajamas with feet and a hood, and no way to pee on a long swim...

Pete- 0230 is the magic hour, when you're on the ramp and the jump gets scrubbed, when you're thinking infil is in 4 hrs, and they tell you to suit up now 0300 dive in the water with a sweet little 2 mi swim, the grenade and arty sims go off on the first night idoors in a month at Camp McK, when you get busted sneaking the girl out of the barracks by the SGM....

**Pete** · 08-28-2006, 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by x_sf_med

.... when you get busted sneaking the girl out of the barracks by the SGM....

Now that brings up the time I was going through "my" barracks checking "my" rooms one afternoon.

I went into one young Staff Sergeant's room and a naked young lady waked out of the bathroom. She of course gave a little scream and jumped behind a wall locker door. She wanted to know what I was doing in the room.

I explained to he that it was not her room and not the SSG's room, it was my room. I also told her that if she saw him before I did to tell him I wanted to see him in my office.

Just another "chat" in my office.

Pete

x SF med · 08-28-2006, 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete

Now that brings up the time I was going through "my" barracks checking "my" rooms one afternoon.

I went into one young Staff Sergeant's room and a naked young lady waked out of the bathroom. She of course gave a little scream and jumped behind a wall locker door. She wanted to know what I was doing in the room.

I explained to he that it was not her room and not the SSG's room, it was my room. I also told her that if she saw him before I did to tell him I wanted to see him in my office.

Just another "chat" in my office.

Pete

Why did the Perry Mason "da, dah, dah, dum" just play in my head - oh, yeah - getting called to task by Team Daddy or Smash myself one or two (okay, a few) times - for various deficiencies/issues/women. the best times were when you got laughed at, not verbally bounced off a locker.

TAN2GREEN · 08-31-2006, 08:59

In reference to reporting to SFQC how far out should you recieve orders if you report to PLDC/BNCOC in the Nov class?
TAN-

doc22584 · 08-31-2006, 09:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by TAN2GREEN

In reference to reporting to SFQC how far out should you recieve orders if you report to PLDC/BNCOC in the Nov class?
TAN-

According to the transition/levy people here at my unit you get them 60 days out, so you should either have yours already or they should be on there way.

**The Reaper** · 08-31-2006, 09:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by TAN2GREEN

In reference to reporting to SFQC how far out should you recieve orders if you report to PLDC/BNCOC in the Nov class?
TAN-

T2G, please fill out your profile more fully if you are going to be posting.

TR

BoyScout · 08-31-2006, 21:13

X SF MED: That was not Jason. That was Odysseus. Jason did the lecture on various metalic wool garments.

Is being comfortible in more that one style of swimming important or should one built endurance first?

x SF med · 09-01-2006, 06:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoyScout

That was not Jason. That was Odysseus. Jason did the lecture on various metalic wool garments.

My bad - you are correct - Odysseus did the Sirens, Jason did the Gold Wool drysuit lecture, imagine the BC you'd need with that, including not burping the suit.

The answer to your other question is - Yes. You can switch swimming styles during the course of your swim, as long as you just keep going,and going, and going.....

BoyScout · 09-01-2006, 08:27

Thank you X SF Med.
This reminds me that I need to swim more.

deanwells · 09-02-2006, 23:17

I know a few guys who were required to take the 2 week swim course. They went at it everyday and still came out weak swimmers. Listen to everyone here who is telling you to start now. Go to your local YMCA and see if they offer swim classes for beginners. You are able to make the minimum 50M now, but what will you do when you show up to a dive team? Drown? The swim lessons will help you with your technique. Technique in the water is the most important thing to have. Good luck in your future career.

DOL

12B4S · 09-03-2006, 03:12

deanwells, (and the rest of you folks.)

In regard to these swim classes, that I keep seeing mentioned. Two or so weeks seems to be the average length of said course. Besides the fact, that is nowhere near ENOUGH. What are these swim lessons or training all about? Is it all pool, maybe an open water swim, once or twice? If there is any open water training, where? Lake, pond, quarry, ocean, river? What is taught in these classes? How to do the perfect Australian crawl? The perfect breast stroke? I was on the HS and college swim team. I never used that stuff while I was in SF or when I worked as a commercial diver. Just wondering. Any training or practice best include negotiating heavy surf, waves or swells. Day or night. There may also be times the Dry and or Wet suit is not available. Usually that means you get to freeze your ass off. Best get the infil done quickly in the cold water.

Then there are the currents and tides in any given location in one's AO. There is a reason for not trying a swim infil against a one knot current. It can be done by strong swimmers, but it's on the edge of the envelope. Add cold water and perhaps no rubber 'Dr Dentons' it gets a tad tougher.

Like anything else. It merely comes down to the MIND. Some can ruck, some can run, some can swim....... forever. Why? Is there some obscure reason, some mental thang that holds people back from being able to all of it? Hmmmmm.... That may have been one of those rhetorical questions.

I would also suggest to any of you folks headed to SF........ take a SCUBA course.............

**The Reaper** · 09-03-2006, 08:57

Consider this.

The team can only move as fast as the slowest guy. They can only ruck at the pace of the last man. If required to run, they can only beat feet at the pace of the slowest runner. When swimming, while you can, as noted, be towed along on a Budweiser line, who wants to be the sea anchor holding the team back? How would you feel if you failed in your mission, or lost teammates because you couldn't keep up? In case you missed it, this ain't tiddleywinks we are playing, the bullets are real in this game.

While we all have our strengths and weaknesses, we cannot all be the best on the team at everything. At the same time, you do not want to be the worst on the team at anything. I am not saying that we should strive for mediocrity, but if you are not the slowest member, you are probably not slowing the team down and are able to help the ones who are. Anything that you are the worst at, you should be working on it to improve, constantly. Complacency will get you killed.

When I first arrived on an ODA, the Team Sergeant told me that Tuesdays were swim days, meet at Lee Pool when it opened at 0600. Now I am not a strong swimmer, I prefer to do most of my swimming with a nice cold drink waiting poolside. I was worried about my ability to keep up. We got into the pool to do 1500 meters and I soon noticed that my teammates were finishing up and leaving well before I was done. When I got out of the pool, the Team Sergeant was the only one not yet done and still had a long way to go to finish, but he was doing his best. I expected that he would soon decide that we could find something else to do on Tuesday mornings, but he kept insisting that we swim on Tuesdays, even though we were a HALO team. He never quit working on it, frequently on his own time, because he considered himself to be in need of improvement. He never let the fact that it was very obvious that he was the slowest deter him from practicing regularly. He made all of us better, because he was more concerned for the team than he was for his personal comfort or avoiding possible embarrassment. By the time he left, the team had shaved several minutes off of our mile swim times, despite the fact that it was not our primary infil method. The entire team (including the TS) could finish the swim in about the same amount of time that it took for the average guy when we started going to the pool. And the TS taught me a valuable lesson.

Bottom line, it shouldn't be about you, if it is, there is a problem. It is about the team and how you can make it better. Think about it.

TR

Surgicalcric · 09-03-2006, 09:27

Thank you for that post Sir.

Very inspiring.

Crip