04-15-2006, 12:53
|
#31
|
|
Asset
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Currently Reside in the UK
Posts: 3
|
Come on
Men,
Not that this subject needs to be beat up anymore than it has been, but...Come on, you know exactly why you did not make it...I know why I did not make it and it does not need a board to fill me in on the reasons. I, went into it believing it was going to be a physical feat that I would easily push through...After a few days , I realized quick that is was more. I learned from that and will be back in september.
Also, you remember how the cadre were during selection...? What makes you think that the men on this board would be any different. "Do your Best".
-VAFF
|
|
VAFF is offline
|
|
|
04-15-2006, 12:58
|
#32
|
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,822
|
VAFF:
Welcome aboard.
Do some reading here, especially the stickies and intros. Fill in your profile and introduce yourself in the proper place before posting again.
Good luck when you return.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
|
|
The Reaper is offline
|
|
|
04-15-2006, 21:21
|
#33
|
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: OK/OCONUS
Posts: 239
|
Bam Bam
Well put. The assessment deal was still pretty new to me when I retired, and other than the Sr WO course, I avoided Bragg for my last 10 years. Yes, like you said, assessment is just that.
|
|
bost1751 is offline
|
|
|
04-16-2006, 12:07
|
#34
|
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: North Texas, I can see OK from here!
Posts: 2,077
|
In all honesty I did SFAS twice...I was just not mature enough the first time around and waited almost 2 years to go back. I had no qualms about why I was non-selected the first time...too self-centered and not enough of a "team mate".
And as for NousDefionsDoc question:
I never worked on the Selection cadre, but if I did my only selection criteria would be, "Do I want this guy on my team covering my six?" That should guide you far as for how to approach selection!
As far as a clearance I also had some issues to clear up but hey if you are honest and can show the why, where and when you can still get a TS-SCI! I am living proof! But there is a lot to be said for keeping your nose clean!
|
|
SF18C is offline
|
|
|
04-17-2006, 11:06
|
#35
|
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LA
Posts: 1,653
|
That is indeed the question Brother.
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
|
|
NousDefionsDoc is offline
|
|
|
04-17-2006, 12:17
|
#36
|
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: America, the Beautiful
Posts: 3,193
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by SF18C
I never worked on the Selection cadre, but if I did my only selection criteria would be, "Do I want this guy on my team covering my six?" That should guide you far as for how to approach selection!
|
Close, I would say here should be the criteria...
Selection: Can I train this guy to cover my 6 on a team?
SFQC Graduation (Sage): Do I want this guy on my team covering my 6?
Fresh out of selection, most guys are not ready to go straight to a team. They need the SFQC to help them not only to learn the technical skills, but to grow and mature as a Soldier.
|
|
Warrior-Mentor is offline
|
|
|
04-17-2006, 12:29
|
#37
|
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: North Texas, I can see OK from here!
Posts: 2,077
|
Warrior-Mentor I totally agree with the statement
Quote:
|
Fresh out of selection, most guys are not ready to go straight to a team. They need the SFQC to help them not only to learn the technical skills, but to grow and mature as a Soldier.
|
But I add this, you can teach someone skills but you really can't change their character or personality. I always felt that what selection is looking for is: Do you have the internal make up to be train-able as well as the character to fit in on a team.
But I don't wish to split hairs...bottom line if someone is a 21 day non-selectee they need to take a good hard look at themselves and find the shortcoming. If they can't find their flaw I wouldn't try going back again...rucka sacka is too heavy to carry around for another non-selection!
|
|
SF18C is offline
|
|
|
04-17-2006, 14:02
|
#38
|
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: America, the Beautiful
Posts: 3,193
|
De acuerdo.
|
|
Warrior-Mentor is offline
|
|
|
04-17-2006, 17:04
|
#39
|
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Moore County, NC
Posts: 96
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by SF18C
Warrior-Mentor I totally agree with the statement
But I add this, you can teach someone skills but you really can't change their character or personality. I always felt that what selection is looking for is: Do you have the internal make up to be train-able as well as the character to fit in on a team.
But I don't wish to split hairs...bottom line if someone is a 21 day non-selectee they need to take a good hard look at themselves and find the shortcoming. If they can't find their flaw I wouldn't try going back again...rucka sacka is too heavy to carry around for another non-selection!
|
Thanks for figuring out how important those two (personality/character) things are. Your Kung Fu is strong SF18C!! Those are things that I have always known and at least now it's being evaluated in SFAS. That's what is dropping guys out now who in the past might have made it. It's tough to see those 24 day non-selects stand there after giving it their all but at least we know the regiment isn't getting only a strong, smart guy....The regiment is getting a strong, smart guy who can also play well with others! Now we need the real "Action Guys" on the teams to keep these young men motivated and stay in for the long run. The story today in the Fayetteville Observer Times is a little concerning.
Thanks for your input!
Daver sends.....
Last edited by Daver; 04-17-2006 at 17:11.
|
|
Daver is offline
|
|
|
04-18-2006, 11:20
|
#40
|
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,822
|
You guys are on the money.
Having sat through boards for several years, I have seen countless guys sent away because they were lacking some aspect of the total package, some were told never to return due to untrainable aspects.
We can make kids better land navigators, faster runners, etc., but we can not teach heart, intelligence, or ethics.
Many times, it came down to the cadre being asked if they would want to serve with the individual being evaluated. A "NO" vote from a proven tac with several years on the teams and at SFAS said a lot.
I am not there now, but I know that Daver, his boss, and the guys at Selection are making sure that these guys being selected meet our standards and are trainable, or they would not keep plugging away at their jobs.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
|
|
The Reaper is offline
|
|
|
05-01-2006, 10:11
|
#41
|
|
Guerrilla
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 140
|
I was a 24 day non select twice, both times for totally different things. If anybody was at SFAS in Jan. of this year you could probably guess who this is because I made the biggest screw up out there. Although I had guys telling me that it was not my fault alone i still kick myself in the nuts ever time I think about it.
My question is this, are they still giving NTR's for all non selects? I was told to wait it out and hopefully it will change. until then I'm going on a deployment with an infantry unit, and plan on attending 98G school to be on a SOT-A team when I get back. Also, is there a way I can have my performance evaluations sent to me from both classes I attended?
|
|
Dustin03 is offline
|
|
|
05-01-2006, 10:20
|
#42
|
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,822
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dustin03
I was a 24 day non select twice, both times for totally different things. If anybody was at SFAS in Jan. of this year you could probably guess who this is because I made the biggest screw up out there. Although I had guys telling me that it was not my fault alone i still kick myself in the nuts ever time I think about it.
My question is this, are they still giving NTR's for all non selects? I was told to wait it out and hopefully it will change. until then I'm going on a deployment with an infantry unit, and plan on attending 98G school to be on a SOT-A team when I get back. Also, is there a way I can have my performance evaluations sent to me from both classes I attended?
|
I have never seen soldiers NTRed merely for being first (or second) time non-selects.
People who are NTRed are not wanted back for a reason, it could be for your benefit or that of the unit. The presumption at that point is that you do not have what it takes to make it through the course, and never will.
That does not mean that you are a bad person or cannot be a great soldier. It merely means that you have been assessed and were not selected for continuation in SF training. You took your best shots, and stepped up to the plate to test yourself. Most never do.
In the final analysis, the high standards are the reason it is "Special Forces", and not "Average Forces".
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
|
|
The Reaper is offline
|
|
|
05-01-2006, 10:53
|
#43
|
|
Guerrilla
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 140
|
Yes sir, they told all non selects they where NTR'd, and that's the way it's going to be for a while. We called the Guard liason at Bragg and he said our best bet was to wait it out for a year until the COC changes again, and perhaps they will lift this new rule. As far as I know the NTR rule is still in effect. Now this was in January, and I haven't heard any change yet.
|
|
Dustin03 is offline
|
|
|
05-01-2006, 11:02
|
#44
|
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 209
|
If you were a NTR in Jan and the guard told you to wait a year the rule may change, check your calendar it's only May, 7 months short of being a year. Attention to detail will carry you a long way in the military and civilian life.
__________________
Billy C .
Here I am with visions and the rest of the world's wearing bifocals.
|
|
BamBam is offline
|
|
|
05-01-2006, 14:58
|
#45
|
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Down South
Posts: 223
|
SFAS
Good advice from everyone. For the guys wanting to go through again. Good Luck. Personally know of one guy who went through SFAS 3 times finally getting selected on the third try and finishing the Q.
__________________
Take Care
Mike
|
|
Mike792 is offline
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:49.
|
|
|
Linear Mode
