03-22-2005, 08:46
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#391
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OK, instead of Hitler and the final solution, how about Stalin and the Gulags.. or Mao and the reeducation camps.. 
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03-22-2005, 09:08
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#392
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03-22-2005, 10:44
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#393
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LA
Posts: 1,653
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Greenhat
OK, instead of Hitler and the final solution, how about Stalin and the Gulags.. or Mao and the reeducation camps.. |
In my opinion, that is what the mullahs are doing in the madrasas.
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Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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03-22-2005, 10:55
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#394
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Guest
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc
In my opinion, that is what the mullahs are doing in the madrasas.
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Which is not all of Islam. Or even a majority of Islam.
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03-22-2005, 12:09
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#395
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LA
Posts: 1,653
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Greenhat
Which is not all of Islam. Or even a majority of Islam.
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Today
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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03-22-2005, 12:15
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#396
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Area Commander
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,355
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc
Today
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Madrassa enrollment is low and declining in Pakistan because of an increased number of options available to parents, and appears to be low in many neighboring countries, as well.
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"Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave whither Thou goest." - Ecclesiastes 9:10
"If simple folk are free from care and fear, simple they will be, and we must be secret to keep them so." - JRRT
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jatx is offline
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03-22-2005, 12:16
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#397
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Greenhat
Which is not all of Islam. Or even a majority of Islam.
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The commonality among these terrorists is that they are Islamic. Not all Muslims are terrorists, but it appears that a damn sight more Muslims are attacking us than any other threat we face.
How many Muslims does it take preaching hatred and intolerance to harm us (and their own religion)? One? Ten? A million? 25%? 45%?
How many dead Americans represent an acceptable loss to Islamic terrorists before we can pin the rose on them? Are we willing to accept further casualties before we call the threat what it is, Muslim extremists and their enablers?
No one suggested going after Muslims who are not involved in terrorism, or supporting terrorism. I suspect that there are more who are ambivalent than anything else, but I also believe that there are more Muslims against us than assisting us.
You can keep citing the vast number of Muslims in SE Asia who are not directly involved and the commonality of Middle Easterners in this, but several nations in SE Asia, including the Phillipines, sure seem to have their share of Islamic terrorists.
I think that we should be using the multiple approaches that have already been articulated to resolve this, but anyone taking up arms or issuing fatwas against us opens themselves up for the hammer resolution.
Frankly, I would be looking to refocus issues to incite discord among the different Islamic radical groups, and help them kill one another off to their hearts' content. That is just my .02, YMMV.
TR
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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03-22-2005, 12:24
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#398
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Pacific NW - Puget Sound
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Wow! Well stated TR! My sentiments exactly! 
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De Oppresso Liber - RLTW
"To make war upon rebellion is messy and slow, like eating soup with a knife" -TE Lawrence.
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Trip_Wire (RIP) is offline
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03-22-2005, 18:44
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#399
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Guest
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The question which starts the thread is:
"Are we at war with Islam?"
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Originally Posted by The Reaper
I also believe that there are more Muslims against us than assisting us.
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I disagree. I agree with most of what you said, but I think there is an awful lot of evidence that the terrorists and their supporters (in any region) are a minority. In some regions, like SE Asia, they are a rapidly disappearing minority.
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04-02-2005, 21:44
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#400
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LA
Posts: 1,653
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I thought THIS was interesting.
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Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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04-02-2005, 22:47
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#401
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Interesting doesn't change my mind. A sympathetic reading of the Quran is no more legitimate or unbiased than a sympathetic reading of the Bible. Either book viewed objectively in the light of history and the actions their adherents shows a much more human motivation for any actions taken "in the name of God". Religion is always perverted to meet the requirements of whoever can get away with it. A violent minority can force anything on a complacent/compliant majority. A simple look at our own history will show that only about 15% of the Colonists initially supported revolution and splitting from England. Independance didn't become popular until it looked like the revolutionaries were winning. The French Revolution is another example of a (violent) minority forcing their will on a mostly indifferent populace. The Islamists may not be the majority, but it doesn't take a majority to wreak havoc and force change. As long as the majority do nothing, they are accomplices. It is only in opposition that they distance themselves from the goals and methods of the terrorists. A few thousand protestations of outrage, the paltry efforts of a handful of governments facing their own demise if they can't control internal disention - these are not the actions of a people (a religion that claims 1 billion + adherents) united in their opposition to the terrorists and their goals. Thankfully we may be seeing a groundswell change in Iraq as the Iraqi people start turning on those who would deny them a chance at a better life. And that has nothing to do with religion either. Bottom line - If we aren't at war with a religion, we are (or should be) at war with people who would use religion to their own ends. Peregrino
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Peregrino is offline
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04-03-2005, 10:16
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#402
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 20,929
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Hey Greenhat
More on your "PROGRESSIVE MOSLEM COUNTRIES": (This story had me rolling on the floor!)
Saudis Behead Three Convicted Terrorists
Sunday, April 03, 2005
Associated Press
RIYADH, Saudi Arabia — Saudi authorities on Friday executed three Saudi militants convicted of assassinating several officials two years ago, Saudi authorities said as this Gulf state continued its campaign to stamp out terrorism.
The three men were beheaded in public in the northern Saudi city of al-Jawf where they carried out their crimes, the Interior Ministry said. After the executions, authorities displayed the executed militants in a public square outside a mosque, tying their bodies to poles on top of which were placed their heads.
Their execution marked the first time Saudi authorities announced penalties against convicted terrorists since 1996. The Saudi monarch had announced an amnesty last year promising that repenting militants will not be sentenced to death.
Militants have carried out multiple suicide bombings and kidnappings and fought gun battles with security forces since May 2003. The attacks have been blamed on Al Qaeda (search), the terrorist group headed by Saudi-born terrorist Usama bin Laden (search), and allied militants.
The men executed Friday — Hisham bin Awwad, Mohammed bin Awadh and Amjad bin Abdul Aziz — were convicted in the 2003 killings of a deputy governor, a religious court judge and a police lieutenant.
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Team Sergeant is offline
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04-03-2005, 23:27
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#403
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: between the desert and the sea
Posts: 460
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muslims against us not assimilating
Sorry this article is mostly about culture and apostasy and other intellekshual stuff, but I thought the numbers might be interesting.
http://economist.com/world/na/displa...ory_id=3809802
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Meanwhile the Dutch intelligence service, AIVD, has made an estimate that was meant to reassure but may have done the opposite. It said 95% of Dutch Muslims were “moderates”—a figure which suggests that nearly 50,000 are potential militants. In fact, the number of active extremists, liable to commit violence, is estimated at around 200, with a loose support group of 1,200.
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In fact eh.
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pulque is offline
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04-04-2005, 04:42
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#404
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Guest
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Team Sergeant
More on your "PROGRESSIVE MOSLEM COUNTRIES": (This story had me rolling on the floor!)
Saudis Behead Three Convicted Terrorists
Sunday, April 03, 2005
Associated Press
RIYADH, Saudi Arabia — Saudi authorities on Friday executed three Saudi militants convicted of assassinating several officials two years ago, Saudi authorities said as this Gulf state continued its campaign to stamp out terrorism.
The three men were beheaded in public in the northern Saudi city of al-Jawf where they carried out their crimes, the Interior Ministry said. After the executions, authorities displayed the executed militants in a public square outside a mosque, tying their bodies to poles on top of which were placed their heads.
Their execution marked the first time Saudi authorities announced penalties against convicted terrorists since 1996. The Saudi monarch had announced an amnesty last year promising that repenting militants will not be sentenced to death.
Militants have carried out multiple suicide bombings and kidnappings and fought gun battles with security forces since May 2003. The attacks have been blamed on Al Qaeda (search), the terrorist group headed by Saudi-born terrorist Usama bin Laden (search), and allied militants.
The men executed Friday — Hisham bin Awwad, Mohammed bin Awadh and Amjad bin Abdul Aziz — were convicted in the 2003 killings of a deputy governor, a religious court judge and a police lieutenant.
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What exactly is a "countire"? Is that manufactured by Michelin, Goodyear or who?
And you haven't seen me ever suggest that Saudi Arabia was moderate.
The Middle-East does not represent Islam, and the majority of the 1.4 billion(more or less) Muslims in the world don't live in Saudi Arabia or even in the Middle-East.
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04-04-2005, 07:02
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#405
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 20,929
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Greenhat
And you haven't seen me ever suggest that Saudi Arabia was moderate.
The Middle-East does not represent Islam, and the majority of the 1.4 billion(more or less) Muslims in the world don't live in Saudi Arabia or even in the Middle-East.
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"The hajj, or pilgrimage to Mecca, occurs annually between the eighth and thirteenth days of the last month of the Muslim year, Dhu al Hijjah. The hajj represents the culmination of the Muslim's spiritual life."
I'm sure the millions and millions of moslems that travel to Saudi Arabia every year would agree with you whole heartedly GreenHat.
The middle east is islams heart and soul.
I take it you've been to the middle east GreenHat?
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