Be Prepared

[Roguish Lawyer]

We just went two days without running water. Excellent test of our emergency water supplies!

[PSM]

Originally Posted by Roguish Lawyer

We just went two days without running water. Excellent test of our emergency water supplies!

AAR please.

Pat

[mugwump]

The site Warrifles.com has a guy who organizes group buys of case lots of Mountain House at cost + 5%. Six #10 cans of Beef Stroganoff sell for $65 vs. the $117 to $150 elsewhere. Purchases over $500 get free drop-shipping directly from Mountain House. It's the ninth buy and customers appear happy. They have single, double and quad pouches, #10 cans, and limited quantities of unadvertised product like vacuum-dried pork chops. They carry pretty much the whole Mtn Hs line. They don't split cases. The buy ends on Friday Jan 19.

Here's the site:

http://www.warrifles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33873


I have no affiliation, nor does ps.com.

[catd11r]

I participated in one of the Mountain House buys, and was content with the prices and delivery. Broadsword is the gentleman who handles the bulk buys on Warrifles.

[jasonglh]

Lowes has heaters and such on clearance already. I picked up a propane Reddy Heater that should be big enough to handle my whole house if needed for $89. It can go up to 135k btu and heats 2900 sq ft.

Now I just need to figure out how to stockpile some propane appropriately. I already have a couple of 20lb tanks but would need something much bigger for a serious power outage in the winter. If I wanted to store a couple of 100lb tanks would the propane at some point go bad? My Google searches only turned up the fact the tanks are rated for a 12 year life span but nothing on the propane itself.

[JGarcia]

To quote Hank Hill, "Propane and Propane accessories are nothin to be messing around with." I think the tanks have to be inspected every 5 years, I don't believe its good to keep them full any longer than that. Propane is quite expensive too. I think a diesel burning or kerosene burning would be better, cuts down on the different kinds of fuel you need to have on hand. But thats my unprofessional opinion - take it with a grain of salt.

[jasonglh]

Actually I have a Reddy Heater that runs on kerosene/diesel fuel but running it in the house with my family would not be an option as the fumes are just too much for my asthma in a closed space. I gave the propane version a test run last night with mixed results but now I will learn and be better prepared. The unit I bought will run on low setting only on a 20lb propane tank but needs a minimum of 40lbs to run on the highest setting of 135k btu. Lesson learned will check with the local propane place Monday about getting large tank. Its only a matter of time until another nasty ice storm knocks out power so I hope to be ready.


On another front I have replaced many of my spotlights with the compact fluorescent version from Lowe's that uses only 23w vs 75w. Funny thing is those suckers are brighter than the 150w halogens I had been running but do require a full minute to get up to max lumen's at 30F. Hopefully having these bulbs will reduce the drain on my generator should the need arise to run the whole house.

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by jasonglh

Actually I have a Reddy Heater that runs on kerosene/diesel fuel but running it in the house with my family would not be an option as the fumes are just too much for my asthma in a closed space. I gave the propane version a test run last night with mixed results but now I will learn and be better prepared. The unit I bought will run on low setting only on a 20lb propane tank but needs a minimum of 40lbs to run on the highest setting of 135k btu. Lesson learned will check with the local propane place Monday about getting large tank. Its only a matter of time until another nasty ice storm knocks out power so I hope to be ready.


On another front I have replaced many of my spotlights with the compact fluorescent version from Lowe's that uses only 23w vs 75w. Funny thing is those suckers are brighter than the 150w halogens I had been running but do require a full minute to get up to max lumen's at 30F. Hopefully having these bulbs will reduce the drain on my generator should the need arise to run the whole house.

Do NOT hook your generator into your panel for the entire house without having a competent electrician install a switch.

If you do, you will energize the lines outside your house as well, endangering utility workers and putting a huge load on your genset.

I would not want to be the only house in the neighborhood with outside lights on, regardless, unless you are looking for company.

My recommendation is to add a second box for the circuits you need to power, or to run extension cords from the generator to the items you wish to use.

If you are in a cold weather survival situation, you should probably consider closing down your living space to the room or two you really need to live in rather than trying to heat your entire house.

We are using a radiant kerosene heater when the temps drop below 40, and the heating bills (electric heat pump) are about 1/3 less than last years. We use about 1-1.5 gallons of kerosene per day when we are running the radiant heater, and it is very comfy in the downstairs living area. Works for us.

TR

[jasonglh]

Very true sir. The old house had been wired with a secondary box that was just plug and play with the generator for the kitchen and heat/AC unit. I have not gotten this house wired for the generator yet. I have several little things I need the contractor to do when he comes out again but not sure if my generator could handle this geothermal unit or not will have to check that one out. I do know it will handle my frig, freezer and some lights easily as I had to use it last year for a few days. Having the power out for 3 days after the tornado really set me to rethinking many things and gained budget approval from the Mrs. She follows the pandemic thread here and on other forums as well so thats also a plus I don't have to explain why I need 2 boxes of N95 masks.

During a longer outage I have found my bedroom to be the best at trapping heat (not so great in the summer) so we would probably only heat the one room. So far the record I have had with no power is 3 days where other areas around me went several weeks. My house on this dead end road is the last on the line and then connects to some sort of shack owned by the railroad. It must be important because the power company guys said the railroad was having a fit about it being out. The RR guys on one of those little trucks had it powered on the 2nd day with a generator running inside. I suppose its a computer hub of some sort.

When I got the bulbs my intention with the outside spot lights was to reduce my overall bill but on the inside I had intended to replace those as well. I have several of those 65w recessed light fixtures inside and thought if need be I could just unscrew all but a few to provide some light. However on the Sylvania packaging they only mention INSIDE the package that you cannot use these bulbs on dimmer switches. All of my recessed lighting is on dimmers so instead I will just replace the other lights with the low wattage ones.

[Sacamuelas]

Originally Posted by jasonglh

On another front I have replaced many of my spotlights with the compact fluorescent version from Lowe's that uses only 23w vs 75w. Funny thing is those suckers are brighter than the 150w halogens I had been running but do require a full minute to get up to max lumen's at 30F. Hopefully having these bulbs will reduce the drain on my generator should the need arise to run the whole house.

Not directed as Jason, but....

Any of you who might be contingency planning a disaster/catastrophe/flu epidemic that could potentially last a few weeks out to months need to seriously reconsider what your "basic necessities" are going to be for your family in that actual circumstance.



For instance, if a gasoline/diesel fueled generator is considered a "requirement" for your family's needs for anything other than very brief service interruptions(1-5 days) then you might be grossly underestimating the logistical nightmare of having that item. My statement is based on the likelihood of the fuel acquisition problems you will encounter if a "true" interruption in shipping/cargo transport takes place due to destruction and/or quarantine. If you or a family member has a true need for constant or even a frequent A/C power supply( medical need, etc), then you should strongly consider contingency planning a way to enable transport just before the crisis to a larger facility that can better accommodate this requirement than a single individual can provide. Either that or at least consider a plan BEFORE the event of a way to pool resources with a group of people and split the expense/storage that will be required.


In the aftermath of Katrina, I spent 6+ hours driving EACH day for more than a week simply transporting gasoline back and forth to the gulf coast to supply the generators that powered my parents, grandparent, and elderly neighbors. It was so bad that there was even a shortage of 5gal plastic gas cans at all the stores (walmart/lowes/home depot,etc). Of course, then you were faced with rationing in the form of $50 per vehicle maximums that a lot of stations imposed to allow everyone to get a little gas but not enough . This process also involved the constant thrill of purchasing overly priced gasoline (4+ dollar/gallon) cash only as well as the fun involved with practically running out of gasoline in the transport vehicle each day trying to get back and forth(average interstate drive was 75 miles each way). Of course, the incredibly long lines at the pump didn't make the daily pilgrimage any better. Now, fast forward to the potential of a true national pandemic where every surrounding community and the nation at large for that matter is no longer in a position to help your AO and adopts a rationing system for their key commodities, etc.

I don't really think the fuel supply concerns can be appreciated by anyone who hasn't dealt with them personally, so I thought I would chime in and add emphasis. Also of note, TR's concern with noise discipline is REAL and you WILL have guests if you are running the only lights, a/c, tv, etc in the neighborhood. In a normal short term outage, you are a hero. In a TRUE pandemic long term emergency, you will be a target as well as your gas (1st hand experience with the gas ) and Katrina wasn't as bad as it can be for something like the pandemic flu.

If I had the true need in long term planning --based on my AO and circumstances--I would look at propane generators with a VERY large in ground(out of sight) storage tank on your property.

Just a little rant and my .02 .


I also have rambling thoughts on water supply and the actual amounts one redneck southern boy required for his family. THAT little gem is completely underestimated by most if a family unit is involved. H20 and sewer turned out the be the most difficult logistical/health problem in my experience during the aftermath of the storm. Luckily for me, I wasn't dealing with bird flu symptoms and the washing/sterilizing requirements that a pandemic would necessitate.

[The Reaper]

Saca:

Very good points.

I have planned to use the generator as long as the fuel supplies hold out, as I have a truck with a 36 gallon tank, two cars of 16 gallons each, 10 five gallon gas cans, four kerosene cans, and a medium-sized portable genset that I only plan to use for short cycles (a couple of hours every eight hours) to power only the essentials (fridge, lights, battery charger, laptop, etc.) I am confident that I have at least a month's worth of gas on hand at any given time for the limited operation. The stock is treated with Sta-Bil and has to be rotated, as gas does not store well. Diesel will keep several months longer.

I do plan to go the propane route with a large genset, 500 gallon in ground tanks and the boxes wired with essential circuits already designated and plugged into the generator box when we build our next home. We may put in an ice machine as well, which would be on the generator circuit.

If you have access to deep cycle batteries, like boats and RVs use, you can pull them, charge them off the generator, and use them to power small appliances like portable TVs, radios, lights, and fans. I also like NiMH batteries for handheld devices like lights and radios.

You need to have a plan for what you will do as friends, neighbors, and long lost relatives wander by. We plan to keep a low profile and limit accrss from people we are not close to. That would probably include muffling the genset, running it in the garage, and draping the windows if lights are on at night.

Cash is important in post-disaster planning. If you have a gun safe, it is pretty easy. Start squirreling away small bills when you can. Save till you have at least $1000 there, and few if any $50s or $100s. If it were to be bad enough, and US currency were to be worthless, you ned to have spare barter goods or gold and silver coins. I would not take more money out to spend than I needed as word may get around to the wrong people that you have cash on hand.

Again, thanks for the voice of experience, Saca.

TR

[JPH]

Originally Posted by Sacamuelas

If I had the true need in long term planning --based on my AO and circumstances--I would look at propane generators with a VERY large in ground(out of sight) storage tank on your property.

I second this!!! I have been looking in to and researching all I can on these matters. As I am looking a property a bit out of the way I should have the space for a LP / NG or even tri fuel system with a custom electrical system when we build.

Also the HAM radio community has a lot of info of commercially available battery / inverter / charger combinations that have proven to work and run their radios, computers, and enough light to work by for 7 + days during emergencies without recharge… although recharging is always best if your AO will allow you to without to much attention.

I am sure some 18E have more info on the DC power options and I will hold off until I have finished my research on the LP generators.

JPH

[JGarcia]

While working down in Louisiana in repsonse to hurricane katrina, I had the opportunity to work in the support section of a firm. We had heaters, generators, travel trailers, light sets, and a vast fleet of vehicles to support. The propane heaters typically ran out of fuel very quickly, we were filling up a 1 ton dually pickup bed every other day with 5 and 10 gallon propane tanks to get filled.

Diesel, in my opinion is a much better alternative, its a multiple use fuel, you can use it for generators, vehicles, heaters, etc. The fumes are a mother. Perhaps an ingenious person could use a diesel heater to heat water for radiant heat, I dunno. Propane is a pain in the ass, be sure you don't ever transport propane INSIDE your vehicle. One leaky tank- and its gonna be good night gracie - KAPLOOEY!!! As I said earlier the tanks have to be inspected every 5 years. There are fewer places to get propane than there are places to get Diesel, it was difficult once or twice to find a place to get a large amount of propane post Katrina. But we got that fixed. Anyhow.

Long term... I think TR is right, 500 gallon tank, batteries, I'd throw in some solar panels especially if'n you live south of 42 degrees. Don't forget your power inverters.

There are places here in Northern California that have never had power, I knew an old guy that lived out in the foothills....er....they'd be mountains to you southerners, no power, so he did the diesel generator/battery thing, also had a wood stove. He was a widower, he got along just fine, and not just cause he was a widower.

In addition to cash, would any of you consider necessities or commodities as currency? Such as fuels, firewood, batteries, or even SAFETY and SECURITY... marketable skills in dire times.

I have a neighbor that lives approximately 500 feet from me. There are a few houses, fences, trees and garages between him and I. When the power goes out in the neighborhhod, you can here his generator kick in from my basement. It just seems to scream out, "Come on over!" So much for nobody visiting him when things get bad.

As far as Propane and Butane are conmcerned, they scare me. I have seen propane canisters go boom and once saw a railcar full of it go in a training film. Killed allot of fireman. Is Propane really that safe to have sitting next your house versus K-1 and gasoline?

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by MAB32

Is Propane really that safe to have sitting next your house versus K-1 and gasoline?

It is safer then gasoline, and has a lot longer shelf life.

I am not Hank Hill, but an underground propane tank should be GTG.

We used the above ground LP versions on the farm for years to heat the barns. They sat outside in good weather and bad, from below zero to 120 degrees, were never maintained, and were filled a couple of times each summer. In the 20 years I lived there, we never had any trouble.

TR