01-24-2006, 15:45
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#16
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NC for now
Posts: 2,418
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Math
Reaper your math needs to get presented to someone up there in the chain. Even with lowering the standards I can't see them filling the slots. When I retired two years ago I walked into the GRP SGM'S office to say goodbye. He had a stack of retirement folders two feet high on his desk. Last year a friend who works at SFAS told me every student he recommended for release or termination was reinstated by the command. After awhile he and other instructors just passed everyone. Might not be true but very sad if it is.
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Sounds like a s#*t sandwhich, but I'll fight anyone, I'm in.
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kgoerz is offline
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01-24-2006, 20:20
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#17
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,947
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Surgicalcric
Also, Bco 3/20th recently relocated from Va to NC partially because Va was tired of spending money on SF and wanted to trade them out for MP's.
Crip
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For what it's worth, that company was originally A/2/11, so it never had close ties to the old boy network of the Virginia Guard.
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Airbornelawyer is offline
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01-24-2006, 20:49
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#18
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Wherever my ruck finds itself
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Airbornelawyer
For what it's worth, that company was originally A/2/11, so it never had close ties to the old boy network of the Virginia Guard.
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Thank you AL for the lesson on the good-ole-boy NG system, in all honesty. I really did not know that was part of the reason. Being new to the NG I am suprised constantly by all the talk of the G-O-B system. Not to change the subject but was this a big problem, in comparison, in the RC SF groups? Just curious more than anything.
Crip
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"It's better to die on your feet than live on your knees."
"Its not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me" -Batman
"There are no obstacles, only opportunities for excellence."- NousDefionsDoc
Last edited by Surgicalcric; 01-24-2006 at 21:12.
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Surgicalcric is offline
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02-19-2006, 06:34
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#19
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Pensylvaina
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I think you could easiley fill at least Two Guard Bn's if the Companies are located in good areas, Ex NY/NJ/PA area, Houston, Dalles, Phonex, Western NC, Georga, Eastern Wa , Michigan, Minnisota/Wi. These areas have no SF unit in a reasonible drive. The deactivation of the 11th and 12th effected some of the listed areas. Some of these areas have never had SF NG or Reserve Units. I wouldn't activate a Group HQ's though I would only go for the Bn's.
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steeve20 is offline
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02-19-2006, 11:58
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#20
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Pacific NW - Puget Sound
Posts: 1,091
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Surgicalcric
Thank you AL for the lesson on the good-ole-boy NG system, in all honesty. I really did not know that was part of the reason. Being new to the NG I am suprised constantly by all the talk of the G-O-B system. Not to change the subject but was this a big problem, in comparison, in the RC SF groups? Just curious more than anything.
Crip
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I never noticed any activity that you could associate with the G-O-B network in the 12th SFG(A) or the 17th SFG(A), which were both USAR Groups. I think it was a sad day when they transfered all SF units to the NG!
I was never in the Army NG; however, I did do some time, in the Air National Guard and thought the G-O-B network was alive and well there. I also heard that it was even worse in the Army NG, from friends serving in it.
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"To make war upon rebellion is messy and slow, like eating soup with a knife" -TE Lawrence.
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Trip_Wire (RIP) is offline
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02-19-2006, 14:47
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#21
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Pensylvaina
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Actually they transfered individuals to the 19th and 20th. If they could find a company to except them. The units them selfs went away. There was a provisional company (Dco) in 1/20. This company reorginized about 2 years after conception as C 1/20 MAANG. Most of the individuals in that company were from A & B Co. 1/11th. The Guard did not gain any units from this deactivation that I am aware of.
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steeve20 is offline
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02-19-2006, 15:17
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#22
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Location: LA
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They are dreaming. And about to lower the standards.
I was never on a full team, not once. Never even saw one. I imagine that many people in a Team Room would be very crowded.
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Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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02-19-2006, 15:34
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#23
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Vermont
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Trip_Wire
I never noticed any activity that you could associate with the G-O-B network in the 12th SFG(A) .
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I was the active duty advisor to the 12th in 82-84 and it did exist when it came to selecting folks for certain positions. I think it depends on where you were and who was calling the shots at the time.
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Wenn einer von uns fallen sollt, der Andere steht für zwei.
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Jack Moroney (RIP) is offline
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02-19-2006, 16:53
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#24
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Well hopefully I wont have as much trouble with the GOB system once I get to a team as I have had getting promoted. If so I will be seeking an AD accessions board.
Crip
__________________
"It's better to die on your feet than live on your knees."
"Its not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me" -Batman
"There are no obstacles, only opportunities for excellence."- NousDefionsDoc
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Surgicalcric is offline
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02-19-2006, 18:14
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#25
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc
I was never on a full team, not once. Never even saw one. I imagine that many people in a Team Room would be very crowded.
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There was one.
The Gabe Team. 
TR
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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02-19-2006, 18:44
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#26
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Reaper
There was one.
The Gabe Team.
TR |
LOL - True that
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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02-19-2006, 20:17
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#27
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Vermont
Posts: 3,093
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc
I was never on a full team, not once. .
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Actually the two different teams I had were not only full most of the time (we were short one commo sgt for a while) but had an additional slot for a CAPO officer. My company in the 10th had full teams with maybe one exception that I can think of (because of over-staffing of the C-Team) and my Bn had full teams but that was a special case. The only time I was short folks was the first B-Team I had in the 10th.
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Wenn einer von uns fallen sollt, der Andere steht für zwei.
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Jack Moroney (RIP) is offline
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02-20-2006, 13:28
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#28
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Location: Watkins, CO
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I agree with TR about expanding ARNG-SF. My recommendations would be:
1. Place initial Force Structure in states that don't have it. Texas could easily sustain a Company and there was once a strong push to place Force Structure in Texas. It failed. States that have strong SF roots such as North Carolina would also be able to sustain Force Structure at (initially) the Company level.
2. Place additional force structure in States that can sustain it. California could, with proper support, expand as could Washington State.
3. Abolish Group Level ARNG Headquarters (keeping the GSC is a separate argument) and establish Direct Training Affiliations (DTAs) at the Battalion Level. For example 1st BN, 19th SFGA becomes 4th BN, 1st SFGA. That would ease transitions for soliders wanting to convert from Active duty to Guard (and vice versa). It would also give ARNG-SF soliders at the ODA level more training opportunities and exposure to current TTP's then they presently have. The cross-pollination between 1st SFGA and A-1-19th SFGA proves that this viable.
4. By making force structure changes objectively and without regards to politics the equivalent of two Battalions of ARNG SF soldiers could be sustained. All of this has been discussed publicly and in print.
5. Speaking from experience as a A-1-12th SFGA soldier there were huge problems with Army Reserve SF that I will not go into on this forum. That is not to say that resurrecting Army Reserve SF should not be considered.
Last edited by Whatever; 02-20-2006 at 13:30.
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Whatever is offline
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02-20-2006, 21:46
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#29
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Closest we came was 11...and worked hard to keep it that way (to avoid being sent a less than stellar Warrant). There are plenty of good Warrants, just not the one they tried to force on us.
There's a big difference between an 11 man team and an 8 man team.
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Warrior-Mentor is offline
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02-20-2006, 22:17
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#30
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Quiet Professional
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Better eight men you can trust, than 11 with three needing full-time child care.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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