F-ing FBI - Page 2

NousDefionsDoc · 06-11-2005, 08:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoLawman

I'm not so sure that the Title to this forum "F-ing FBI" is appropriate. The FBI has extensive successes against the Scum who perpetrate terrorism. The WTC bombing, Lockerbie, etc. Negatively labeling them as a result of Kangaroo court findings is unfair.

I apologize for being a little sensitive in this area. But law enforcement all too often is criticized by the press and special interest groups to the detriment of those dedicated to their mission.

Perhaps, but we are discussing the F-ing FBI, not law enforcement.

You consider the results of the WTC bombing and Lockerbie incident successes?

Let's dance....

CoLawman · 06-11-2005, 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc

Perhaps, but we are discussing the F-ing FBI, not law enforcement.

You consider the results of the WTC bombing and Lockerbie incident successes?

Let's dance....

Not a graceful dancer so I apologize if I happen to step on your toes

I consider both Investigations conducted into Lockerbie and WTC to be successes.

It was through the efforts of the FBI that the perps involved in Lockerbie were identified and directly linked to Libya.

It was also through the combined efforts of the FBI and NYPD that the perps involved in the WTC bombing were identified and arrested, prosecuted and convicted.

I might add in further support of my previous post that it was the FBI that successfully investigated the Oklahoma City Bombing, thus holding responsible the Domestic terrorists responsible.

The FBI's investigative abilities are unmatched anywhere in the world when it comes to investigating "APE", "Brush Fires", and Politically sensitive cases.

The FBI is the Pinnacle of Law Enforcement .

The FBI lost many on September 11th and during the Oklahoma City bombing. You don't often hear much about their losses as they were overshadowed by NYPD/NYFD losses.

I understand this post was about the FBI and that is why I responded. Go to a law enforcement site with forums and you will find no derogatory postings regarding our military. Just the opposite. In law enforcement cops are universally referred to as "Our Finest". We in law enforcement know that "Our Finest" are those who serve in the military and we stay home to protect "Our Finest's" families.

Using the findings of that report to conclude the FBI is inept is no more valid than saying past failures by the military supports a generalization of ineptness.

Hmmmmmmm.....don't believe I stepped on your toes. Thank you for the tango!

Prester John · 06-11-2005, 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoLawman

I might add in further support of my previous post that it was the FBI that successfully investigated the Oklahoma City Bombing, thus holding responsible the Domestic terrorists responsible.

The FBI's investigative abilities are unmatched anywhere in the world when it comes to investigating "APE", "Brush Fires", and Politically sensitive cases.

The FBI is the Pinnacle of Law Enforcement .

The FBI lost many on September 11th and during the Oklahoma City bombing. You don't often hear much about their losses as they were overshadowed by NYPD/NYFD losses.

Not to cut in, but I'm not sure that the FBI wasn't partially responsible for the scope of the OKC bombing. Their investigation has many indications of a coverup.

McVeigh certainly didn't expect his truck to have the effect it did. Long story short... he was a very bad guy, but not as culpable as the FBI would have enjoyed painting him. Certainly not trying to defend him.

The FBI as the pinnacle of law enforcement is frightening. Especially regarding their egredgious errors in judgement and protocol at Ruby Ridge and Waco.

EDIT: I am not trying to play the alarmist or stir up an anger fueled argument. I am simply stating a few alternate viewpoints I have read that seem pretty well researched. While the FBI may be elite, they are certainly not without blemish.

Sigi · 06-11-2005, 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoLawman

I It was also through the combined efforts of the FBI and NYPD that the perps involved in the WTC bombing were identified and arrested, prosecuted and convicted.

The only issue I have with the WTC Bombing investigation is the mishandling of information and leads that could have and should have prevented 9/11. The FBI may be the pinnacle of LE, but their supervisors and SAIC's are preventing the men and women on the street from having more success. Hopefully this has changed, but I doubt it.

I have a 5 family members in LE and there are times when I am critical of LE in general. I also very loyally defend them.

In this case I may not know all the facts, but if half of what is written in 1000 Years for Revenge is true, they do not get any slack from me.

My .02

casey · 06-11-2005, 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoLawman

The FBI is the Pinnacle of Law Enforcement .

Thank God I have a new 3volt in the pacemaker or this little gem would have sent me home !!!!!

Having worked with all of the Federal Agencies to a great extent, I can honestly say that the FBI is, without a doubt, NOT the pinnacle of Law Enforcement. In fact I have a hard time thinking of them as a true Law Enforcement agency at all.

You stated

Quote:

It was also through the combined efforts of the FBI and NYPD that the perps involved in the WTC bombing were identified and arrested, prosecuted and convicted

- yep, that was a tough one.... especially since they were the same "perps" that murdered Rabbi Mier Khani in NY a short time before, were all interviewed, never left NY City, and then cranked off the VBIED inside the WTC. If I remember correctly it was the NYPD that wanted to look further into the murder and were told by said "pinnacle agency" - nope, only a lone gunman acting here...

Would a "pinnacle" Agency put out "Terrorist Alerts" for foreign Nationals - some of whom were in Federal custody already, identify an Egyptian Nationals shooting spree at the LA EL AL counter as a "work incident" for over a year - finally changing this to a terrorism act, misidentify an American lawers finger prints as being on a bag of blasting caps connected to the Madrid bombing, give back to a defendant his computer - still containing classified info for which he is being prosecuted?????? These a but of few of this "pinnacle agencies" stellar success stories of late.......... I'm sure a plethora of others can be brought up.

Look, I know some damn fine people that work for the FBI, but your organization as a whole is fast becoming irrelevant - and that is scary, not only to them but more importantly to me. I say your because you've identified yourself as law enforcement, and no "local" I know would ever make that "pinnacle" statement - it just seems to smack of NA arrogance. What the FBI could be, is, and what they think they are, are three vastly -and I mean night and day - different things.

I have more faith in what NY is doing today, as are other PD's - developing their own intel pool and sourcing from the ground up - in other countries as is seen fit.

Real time, actionable intel is the key to survival for us, and I for one am still waiting to see my first piece from said "pinnacle" agency.

BMT (RIP) · 06-11-2005, 17:31

I think one of the biggest problems right now is alot of people put thier political party before the JOB!!!

BMT

Trip_Wire (RIP) · 06-11-2005, 17:33

I must agree with what Casey had to say about the FBI!

QRQ 30 · 06-11-2005, 21:41

I'm just not so quick to condemn and call any agency "f***ing".

In my youth the FBI, or all G-Men were the epitome of law enforcement. Somewhere the agencies became diluted. J. Edgar Hoover was america's law man. Then, somewhere around the seventies, the lefties, the ACLU, and the likes of Gentleman Jimmy Carter decided that law enforcement had become too powerful and were infringing upon our civil rights. Through the democratic process, America apparently agreed. That is how I base my statement that "American society screwed the pooch." We got what we thought we wanted and now that things are screwed up we blame the very people whom we de-fanged.

CoLawman · 06-11-2005, 22:07

Point to Casey!

My opinion of the FBI does not diminish the respect I have for NYPD and other Local agencies. My sin was using a term that was not appropriate. Pinnacle was not the proper term and you were right to call me on it. They have all the agents with talent, capability, and dedication to rise to the top. It is those individuals that I was defending. I fully understand how the administration hamstrings the agent in the field. I also believe that those instances you cite are the bi-product of the higher echelons than I was defending. Example: Janet Reno and Louie Freeh.

By the way Casey I'm not a NA grad. Never had any aspirations of kicking the adrenalin highs by getting promoted out of police work.

Okay now that I have surrendered I can't leave without the last word. WACO, RUBY RIDGE, OKC Bombing conspiracy????? Give me a break! Sheeesh!

CoLawman · 06-11-2005, 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by QRQ 30

I'm just not so quick to condemn and call any agency "f***ing".

In my youth the FBI, or all G-Men were the epitome of law enforcement. Somewhere the agencies became diluted. J. Edgar Hoover was america's law man. Then, somewhere around the seventies, the lefties, the ACLU, and the likes of Gentleman Jimmy Carter decided that law enforcement had become too powerful and were infringing upon our civil rights. Through the democratic process, America apparently agreed. That is how I base my statement that "American society screwed the pooch." We got what we thought we wanted and now that things are screwed up we blame the very people whom we de-fanged.

I wish I had written this instead of my original post.

NousDefionsDoc · 06-11-2005, 22:38

Just my personal opinion, but:
1. I don't think the FBI had a clue as to who was behind the WTC bombing until 9-12.

2. I still don't think they know who was behind the OKC bombing.

3. I don't think they caught half the people involved in the Lockerbie incident.

4. I don't think they have a role in the CT business.

5. I know they have no business working overseas.

They may be very good at something - CT ain't it.

Prester John · 06-12-2005, 00:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoLawman

Okay now that I have surrendered I can't leave without the last word. WACO, RUBY RIDGE, OKC Bombing conspiracy????? Give me a break! Sheeesh!

I wouldn't call conscious disregard for protocol resulting in many dead non-combatants to be a "conspiracy theory".

I'm probably more of a warhawk than most, but I guess growing up in TX with a steady diet of The New American can do that to you. I tend to agree with NDD, even though I know several VERY competant FBI agents.

casey · 06-12-2005, 05:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoLawman

Point to Casey!

Okay now that I have surrendered I can't leave without the last word. WACO, RUBY RIDGE, OKC Bombing conspiracy????? Give me a break! Sheeesh!

Your last word was misdirected - I never mentioned these instances.

And like QRQ 30, I don't sit and say f*** them - it actually worse than that - I now choose to ignore them. Not because of personal feeling or bias but simply put I have lost all confidence in their ability to HELP.

I'm in total agreement with you CoLawman

Quote:

They have all the agents with talent, capability, and dedication to rise to the top. It is those individuals that I was defending.

- however, they're organization has developed a case of terminal mission creep and those individuals are all dragged along. They really do have one of the finest investigative arms in the world today - unfortunately thats where it ends, as information is kept tightly within their own system. Why ? My personal feelings is that they have attempted within the decade, to move from an adminsitrative investigative and charging function to an operations mode in EVERY spectrum of law enforcement - a hat they clearly don't wear well.

So I guess what I'm saying is that I don't give a rats ass how talented, capable, or dedicated you are at any agency, when you become the keeper of and impediment to the gathering and timely dessimination of actionable intel, then in todays environment you have become irrelevant - and other Law Enforcement Agencies will move on, and away from you.

Smokin Joe · 06-12-2005, 07:24

FBI:
Good capable front line staff.

REALLY bad politically motivated adminstration and supervision.

Just my .02 cents

QRQ 30 · 06-12-2005, 08:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smokin Joe

FBI:
Good capable front line staff.

REALLY bad politically motivated adminstration and supervision.

Just my .02 cents

Good Post Joe.