Double Dumb Stuff - Page 2

**The Reaper** · 03-12-2005, 09:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

These are 18C stories. Not all stories go boom. If your story is about an 18C you're cleared hot.

Maybe LR1947 can tell us the log story. Or his frag story.

We had an 18C who was on an exercise at Avon Park, where the AF had given us some nice buildings to use as non-destructive targets.

When the team pulls up to surveil the target, they note that the front door is secured with a Series 200 lock.

They ask the 18C, "How much C-4 will that take to open?"

He ponders and says, in a studious manner, "Exactly one M-112 Charge Block."

As anyone here who has shot a charge knows, that is most definitely P squared for Plenty.

They prepare, place, and make the shot.

When the smoke clears, the lock is gone. As is the hasp. The door. The frame. And ten feet of AF wall, later determined to be valued at $10,000.

They enter the building, asnd the target, a safe containing documents, is there on a table.

Team leader yells, "We got another Series 200 lock, Mike."

He replies, "Got another M-112 Charge, coming up."

The evaluator gave them the key to the safe.

Funny thing is when the engineer showed up to work with me on Demo Committee, and that little story got out.

TR

QRQ 30 · 03-12-2005, 09:27

I'm not sure of the spelling. It is pronounced "abatee". It is an obstruction made by falling trees across a road. The idea is to leave the tree attached to the trunk to make it even more difficult to clear.

During training in Germany our demo man was to make an abatis. I don't know the particulars of how he miscalculated. It had something to do with confusion in KG vs LB and/or blocks of TNT vs. blocks of C-4. I do know it wasn't an intentional "P" factor overcharge.

To make a long story short he made toothpicks instead of an abatis. We LOAO and from then on he was known as "The Toothpick Man".

BTW: the M5-A1 charge was a 2.5 lb. (1 kg) block of C-4.

**Jack Moroney (RIP)** · 03-12-2005, 12:55

Speaking of abatis, after Lang Vei got hit with PT-76s the 5th Group seemed to go nuts and wanted everyone to have an anti-tank defense built into their camp defense plan. Now understand this , this was Mang Buk where there were no passable roads to anything heavier than a buffalo cart, many rivers and waterfalls, the highest peaks in SVN and the only way in or out was by air. But, logic not prevailing, we were directed to put in tank obtacles. So what the hell I thought, here is a good chance to do a little demo training for the little people so we found an old jungle cart trail, took the little guys out, and constructed a 200 yard long abatis of some of the biggest damn trees that the rainforest could produce. Everything went off like clock work and became a big damn party. All the women collected the orchids from the tree tops, the little kids chased down the various fauna that had made their homes in the trees and made a feast, and what was left over from those trees that splinted a little more than they should was carried off as fire wood. Three week later I brought a patrol back into the camp over this area and there was not a tree left in place. The little people had hacked everyone of them for firewood.

Jack Moroney

BMT (RIP) · 03-12-2005, 15:18

While C-101A was TDY at Lopburi the Thai SF wanted an abatis to start and ambush on the convey.

Our best Demo man ( NOT THE CLOCK MAN) was tasked to set up the abatis. Checking his demo hand book, the hardest tree was used to compute the charge. he did a test shot using the oak tree data, teak tree was still standing after the test shot. He said if the formula for blowing an oak tree didn't work he would just add 10 lbs to each tree.

Day of the ambush training our man prepared his charges, when the covoy was sighted he blew the demo.

From that day on he was known as 10 lb "P".

BMT

**Pete** · 03-12-2005, 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Reaper

C-4 as issued in M-112 Charge Blocks weighs 1.25 lbs per .

TR

back in the old days we had the M2 block (tetrytol) 2 1/2 lbs, 2" x 2" x 11"; The M3 Block (C-2 & C-3) 2 1/4 lbs, 2" x 2" x 11"; The M5A1 Block (C-4) 2 1/2 lbs, 2" x 2" x 11 3/4" and The M112 Block (C-4) 1 1/4 lbs, 1" x 2" x 11". That does not include the M118 and M186 roll.

We also had the M37 Demolition Charge Assembly that contained a total of 8 M5A1 blocks (4 per small bag) and two M15 priming assemblies. Total explosive wt 20 lbs. Two charges were packed in one wooden box with a total wt: 57 lbs.

This was replaced by the M183 Demolition Charge Assembly. Basicly the same thing as the M37 but with 16 M112 blocks and 4 priming assemblies.

Just some of the things we had to play with. C-3 was yellowish, oily and would stain your hands but was very similar to work with as C-2. I never saw the M2 block or any C-2, that I remember anyway.

Ya mean you only have the M112 to play with these days? Those M85 bags were a hot item to lift of the ranges.

Just a blast from the past from

Pete

**The Reaper** · 03-12-2005, 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete

back in the old days we had the M2 block (tetrytol) 2 1/2 lbs, 2" x 2" x 11"; The M3 Block (C-2 & C-3) 2 1/4 lbs, 2" x 2" x 11"; The M5A1 Block (C-4) 2 1/2 lbs, 2" x 2" x 11 3/4" and The M112 Block (C-4) 1 1/4 lbs, 1" x 2" x 11". That does not include the M118 and M186 roll.

We also had the M37 Demolition Charge Assembly that contained a total of 8 M5A1 blocks (4 per small bag) and two M15 priming assemblies. Total explosive wt 20 lbs. Two charges were packed in one wooden box with a total wt: 57 lbs.

This was replaced by the M183 Demolition Charge Assembly. Basicly the same thing as the M37 but with 16 M112 blocks and 4 priming assemblies.

Just some of the things we had to play with. C-3 was yellowish, oily and would stain your hands but was very similar to work with as C-2. I never saw the M2 block or any C-2, that I remember anyway.

Ya mean you only have the M112 to play with these days? Those M85 bags were a hot item to lift of the ranges.

Just a blast from the past from

Pete

As COL M can verify, during Desert Shield/Desert Storm the 82nd cleaned out the Bragg ASP when it turns out they wanted to take more than the combat load they had packaged. So they took all mines, demo, Claymores, LAWs, grenades, ammo, and pretty much everything else not attached to the bunkers.

It looked like we would have to cancel an SFQC 18C class because we had no demo to train with.

Someone called TRADOC and got permission to conduct a scavenger hunt of all of the TRADOC installation ASPs on the East Coast.

We took or trusty 18' Ryder Rental trucks and drove from post to post takeing anything we could get and leaving a trail of 581s in our wake.

When we pulled the collection plate together back at Bragg, we had some of the oldest, most obscure, obsolete, expired ammo you have ever seen.

We ran that class with WW II era blocks of TNT, C-2, C-3, M2 and M3 Blocks, and Korean War era mines. It all worked though, and that was good enough for Army training.

SF. Make it happen. Not just a job, a way of life.

I have not seen an M5A1 since then. When I was on Coleman recently, they had nothing but the new M-112s, with the taggants added.

Is there something wrong with the M83 bag? They worked pretty well too.

TR

**Pete** · 03-12-2005, 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Reaper

When we pulled the collection plate together back at Bragg, we had some of the oldest, most obscure, obsolete, expired ammo you have ever seen. TR

Easy now, Big Guy, Easy now

You have to remember SF spans just over 50 years. That "Oldest, most obscure, obsolete, expired" stuff was state of the art when some of the FOGs were running around

. Heck, young kid that I am

, I even used the old Airborne Pocket Mine. Granted that was in the late 70s.

All-in-all anything that goes bomb will get the job done. It's all in how you use it.

Pete

QRQ 30 · 03-12-2005, 19:27

I must admit I am a little surprised. I would think that today's demo men would at least be given a familiarization of our FOG type explosives. We were, even in cross training. I can almost visualize a display board with samples and descriptions of almost any explosive available, worldwide. I guess it has to do with orientation more to door kicking and bullet launching and less UW. I would hate to guess the number of tons of that "ancient stuff" that is still casched around the world. Most of it is pretty stable and probably useable.

JTFR: I may have trouble remembering where I laid my keys ten minutes ago, but my recollection of things 40 years ago is pretty accurate.

**Team Sergeant** · 03-12-2005, 20:40

We did a demo range on Oki, and every demo range there comes with a Marine Demo guy (safety).

We arrive with a ton of demo to train with and when the Marine shows up he’s got a couple of packages for us.

WWII satchel charges and the bags were “dripping.” When we asked what they were he told us they were WWII satchel charges and when I asked why they were “wet” he said he thought that might be “Nitro” and they should be safe, just don’t drop them.

The other stuff was WWII “TOP SECRET” limpet mines. I wish I still had the instructions for placing them on enemy ships. They were pretty cool, I’m sure we have some better anti ship mines in the inventory now….. Yes, we placed all the packages on a stack of C-4 and with a thunderous “FIRE IN THE HOLE” turned the whole lot into gas.

12B4S · 03-13-2005, 02:09

The Def's back in my day.....

TNT........ 1LB

M-1 Chain (Tetrytol)............. 8 blocks to a chain- used as 1 charge or 8 different charges 2 1/2 LB blocks, for cutting steel or breaching concrete.

M-2 (Tetrytol)...... come seperately, but 8 blocks per haversack. Has capwells on both ends. 2 1/2 Lb blocks.

C3: moldable 2 1/2 Lb blocks
A) M3.... no capwells
B) M5.... has threaded capwells

C4: (M5A1) we all know.... 2 1/2 Lb blocks... 8 to a Haversack.

Hey! What about the M118 sheet? or the Comp B?

BTW, Those blocks of C4 were great in the fire barrel on those days on the range, when it was colder than a well digger's ass.

Which brings up another memory. Sorry for ramblin' on. Nah!! I'm not. Just for fun fill in time, We'd make little balls of C4. Light them on fire, take a rock and SMACKKK 'em. Started out tiny, like caps.... well, the size of the C4 balls grew, became a competion thing. We looked for rocks shaped like a rounded hill top, gradual contour lines at the bottom growing closer together toward the top. Had some pretty big bangs and fire flashes going on. The instructors stopped us after a few singed field jackets. Don't know why. None of us got knocked off our feet or anything. Instructors!!??!
We also trained with new and old Dynamite (in reference to TS's post) Sounds to me like those Marines were somewhat fortunate to had gotten those ancient, nitro sweating satchel charges as far as to you.

12B4S · 03-13-2005, 02:36

An after thought....... as I was trained.
The Abatis:
Trees should fall at a 45 degree angle to the road.
Charges placed 3 to 5 ft above the ground.
Taking down at least six. three on both sides.
For a length of at least 75 meters.

The fun stuff comes in (as posted earlier) figuring out the amount of explosive. External or internal formulas,the type tree and so on. The "P" factor is always a favorite for us, especially used with a ribbon charge.