I need some help - Page 2

NousDefionsDoc · 03-04-2005, 14:06

As for the code - we are dealing with people that have gone back to the way things used to be done. Didn't UBL, quit using cell phones, email etc., after they figured out the No Such was reading the mail?

Maybe it's not a critical skill anymore, but...

In the early 90s we had Battalion CSMs and CDRs telling us there was no more SF DA and UW missions to be had.

When I buy a new hammer for my tool box (only tool I know how to use), I don't throw the old one out.

I would have them keep learning it. Maybe not make it a deal breaker for the MOS.

QRQ 30 · 03-04-2005, 14:11

Where do the Demo men come from? I always thought they were commo drop outs.

**Roguish Lawyer** · 03-04-2005, 14:47

Soldiers are not prohibited from learning morse on their own time, are they?

NousDefionsDoc · 03-04-2005, 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roguish Lawyer

Soldiers are not prohibited from learning morse on their own time, are they?

No. Nor are the prohibited from raking their teeth down a chalk board over and over. Both equally enjoyable.

CommoGeek · 03-04-2005, 15:14

Why not teach IMC at ANCOC for the Echos or make IMC a requirment before attending the 18F course? Not that a Fox will need it but you make your Senior everythings learn it so some code knowledge is on the team.

lksteve · 03-04-2005, 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc

In the early 90s we had Battalion CSMs and CDRs telling us there was no more SF DA and UW missions to be had.

in the 70s and 80s there were Battalion CSMs and CDRs telling us we needed to send manual CW from within the Soviet bloc...in the next breath, they would tell us we were only going to do SICTA, as UW was dead...there was no resistance potential in the former Warsaw Pact...

manual CW...oh, well...

lksteve · 03-04-2005, 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by QRQ 30

Where do the Demo men come from? I always thought they were commo drop outs.

we come from Zydor, a planet in a galaxy far away...we came here to break your radios...da-da-di-dah...

**Airbornelawyer** · 03-04-2005, 15:25

Going back to the original query, CG might have a better perspective since he spent more time in a SIGDET with Echo wannabes and gonnabes than I did, but I don't recall a commo equivalent of the Gross Anatomy Coloring Book advice for prospective 18Ds.

Learning the basics of radio and wave theory might be helpful, but I think Terry D.'s original piece of advice is soundest: they will teach you the specific skills you need to know (I am agnostic on the AIMC issue - 15/15 cut down somewhat on attrition but it also cut down on useful Morse skill).

We soaked up what we could from the more experienced, but our team daddy's advice to the course-bound was to focus on (i) physical and mental preparedness and (ii) land nav. The cadre will teach you what you need to know about making commo; it's the draw monster you need to be prepared for.

lksteve · 03-04-2005, 15:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roguish Lawyer

Soldiers are not prohibited from learning morse on their own time, are they?

alot of radio operators pursue licensure as HAM operators...i believe, even in that endeavor, knowledge of morse code is becoming a thing of the past...but my dad got a HAM license after retirement and before passing away had an engineer's license...all he ever used was morse code...and he was self-taught...if you want or need something bad enough, there's a way to get it done...

a guy in the Q course might be short on spare time, though...

uboat509 · 03-04-2005, 17:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by QRQ 30

Where do the Demo men come from? I always thought they were commo drop outs.

We don't actually use radios, we just make sure that the Echo's handreciepts are updated with all their new hightech toys that they keep getting. As for Charlies being commo dropouts, when I was in the course the Delta course was refered to as the preCharlie course.

SFC W

QRQ 30 · 03-04-2005, 17:52

As for a previous statement about attritin, I believe they had the proper solution in the sixties. When selected for 051 training almost everyone said: "Oh no, anything but that. I want to shoot things and blow things up!!". The answer was if you want to be SF you will be an SF commo man. There were no reclassifications to another MOS and the attrition dropped drastically.

On another tack, I was the most protected man on my team in Germany. On FTX's I couldn't take a dump without an escort. Life was somewhat boring because they never let me go on the fun things like raids and ambushes. I was the ticket home and treated that way. Many times I was stashed at a location and separated from the team. I walked miles between contacts to avoid being scarfed up. They used runners between me and the team.

By the time I got to RVN I was ready to volunteer for recon. Commo was well represented on Recon teams.

CommoGeek · 03-04-2005, 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airbornelawyer

Going back to the original query, CG might have a better perspective since he spent more time in a SIGDET with Echo wannabes and gonnabes than I did, but I don't recall a commo equivalent of the Gross Anatomy Coloring Book advice for prospective 18Ds.

Learning the basics of radio and wave theory might be helpful, but I think Terry D.'s original piece of advice is soundest: they will teach you the specific skills you need to know (I am agnostic on the AIMC issue - 15/15 cut down somewhat on attrition but it also cut down on useful Morse skill).

We soaked up what we could from the more experienced, but our team daddy's advice to the course-bound was to focus on (i) physical and mental preparedness and (ii) land nav. The cadre will teach you what you need to know about making commo; it's the draw monster you need to be prepared for.

Everyone we sent was an experienced 74C or 31C so they had antenna theory down. What we were told was that it helped, but wasn't necessary. Literally every tool a prospective 18E needs will be provided during the course, a signal meter being the one exception which can be purchased for a minimal amount; knowledge is provided by the best communicators in the world and the onus to learn is on the student.

The general rules found on this board apply for the 18B or 18E or 18D or 18C courses: don't quit, follow instructions, don't be late, light, or last.

Max_Tab · 04-01-2005, 12:13

The last time I used Code was in Robin Sage back in 98. In my opinion code is as out dated as the prc-77. If you war game it, you can come up with times you might use it, but that situation would be so rare as to be pointless, and even if you do send it, there is no one at the FOB who can copy it.
If you want to brush up on something, focus on computers. Learn basic networking, and if you don't know how to type, get a cheap typing program, and learn. Everything else will be tought as needed. And as for being the most protected man on the team, not anymore. With some of the new wiz bang gear we have, even a delta (for NDD) can learn, with some cross training.

QRQ 30 · 04-01-2005, 12:26

If you want a contigency learn semiphore, wig wag and other non electronic means. We are wrapped up in an an insurgency but even terrorists can get a hold of an EMP device. When I was still on AD I remember reading of a CO in the 4th ID who made his people operate without radios at one day per week. During the cold war it was a given that we or the USSR would detonate EMP producing devices making radios and computors useless.

I once heard on the History Channel that in Roman times, info could be transmitted across the Isle of England in less than an hour.

Max_Tab · 04-01-2005, 12:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Moroney

Point taken and understood, however I am not talking about the upper level of spectrum of conflict but the lower level. UW, plans for folks to go into areas now denied to us, urban opns where you may not be able to get a satellite shot, areas where the ability to just send and receive over a ground return line, lights, and other non-sophiscated means. The stuff we have now works great while the birds are flying and base stations are in range. Think long range commo where HF is the only option and atmospheric conditions absolutely suck. Code will always get thru where voice and data will not. I don't know, maybe this dinosauer's time has come and gone. Maybe I just don't think that technology is always the answer. Maybe I just am getting to old to change. And then maybe guys like Walker, Thorington, and other hard core commo guys that beat me around the head and shoulders from the 10th and could magically make commo anytime and anywhere just hit a spot of nostalgia for me where I feel that I might be betraying their efforts and skills. At any rate, it still pisses me off and I think it is a big mistake at the expense of graduating the appropriate number of folks from the 18E program.

Jack Moroney

In reference to your statement above sir, I think the course should teach differant forms of clandestine communications. Email encryption, hiding your ISP, modern forms of encrypting messages. There are so many programs out there, there offer better encryption, than what is approved for use, for the military. If you are working in an urban enviornment you wouldn't even need to have anything more than a laptop computer, to make comms ie less of a signature.
If the bad guys are using it, and we are having problems breaking it, than we should be safe in using it for our messages.