Let's talk about our Relationship with Israel - Page 2

CommoGeek · 02-13-2004, 18:54

Quote:

Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
Imagine what scares me.

A lack of manhole covers....

Re: Crip's comment about no peace in that area in this life: I agree. That area is a mess. I think some foreign aid and some intell sharing is a great thing between us and Israel. I wish they'd take the gloves off and crush the Palestinians.

**Roguish Lawyer** · 02-13-2004, 18:57

Quote:

Originally posted by Surgicalcric
Did any of that make sense?

Yes, and I agree.

Surgicalcric · 02-13-2004, 19:02

Since you have my thoughts on it Counselor what about your thoughts?

NousDefionsDoc · 02-13-2004, 19:04

Actually, the crip thing is Reaper's.

James, if you're Jewish you should really learn to spell Israel.

I tend to agree to a point. However, don't forget where Israel got all that military gear. When you borrow, the lender has a right of stipulation.

Israel could very well cause a huge problem in the region if the right person(s) aren't making the decisions - would you rather we picked their PMs?

The oil in that region is too important globally let any one country "do what it sees fit".

I'll admit, the US policy is at times contradictatory and may not always be the best policy, but most of what the US does in the region benefits Israel.

Imagine what Europe would do if Israel began to do "what it sees fit."

I think Israel is a friend to the US, one of a very few. Most of the time.

Valhal · 02-13-2004, 19:08

Quote:

Originally posted by Roguish Lawyer
Big wide paddle today with many subtopics:

1. Is Israel our closest or one of our closest allies, as it claims to be? Explain your answer, please.

2. Is it in our national interest to have a close relationship with Israel? Why or why not?

3. What Israeli policies, if any, do you object to? Why?

4. If you controlled our foreign policy, would you alter our relationship with Israel? If so, how?

OK, quick answers
1. YES
2. YES
3. Many, will get back to this.
4. YES, but that is a tough one for many reasons.

First of all let me apologize because I will not be able to get into depth with these answers right now.
Second, Surgical crip, I am a seeker of truth and a discussion like this will help get there, I have many questions and I do not pretend to be an expert.

I have spent a good part of 2003 studying this topic.
Books I have read;
Righteous Victims, by Benny Morris
The Question of Palestine, by Edward Said
Fateful Triangle, Noam Chomsky
Various essays and news reports.

Like I said I am not an expert, but I have found that most Americans are ignorant on this issue basing most of thier opinions on the biased news coverage. Most know nothing at all about the Palestinian side of the argument.

Damn I got to go. Some quick points to discuss.
The Israeli's are guilty of terrorist acts against innocent civilians. Look up the Deir Yassin massacre.
Question, How would you feel if a bunch of powerful countries decided to split off your homeland and give it to someone else?

Be back later.

**Roguish Lawyer** · 02-13-2004, 19:15

Quote:

1. Is Israel our closest or one of our closest allies, as it claims to be? Explain your answer, please.

I assume England is #1, but I understand Israel also to be high on the list. I am no expert, though, and I think many on this board are in very good position to evaluate this.

Quote:

2. Is it in our national interest to have a close relationship with Israel? Why or why not?

I think so. Israel is the only country in the Middle East that shares our values. While supporting Israel arguably jeopardizes our access to oil and pisses off the muslim world, I believe in supporting our friends and killing our enemies. I also don't abandoning Israel would eliminate conflict with the muslim world in the long term. I also understand that there has been helpful cooperation among US and Israeli defense contractors and intelligence agencies.

Quote:

3. What Israeli policies, if any, do you object to? Why?

I don't like socialism, and Israel's domestic policies go in that direction. As far as the Palestinians go, I think the Israelis have shown extraordinary restraint. I do not believe that the Palestinians and the Arab world will accept anything short of the destruction of Israel -- the "peace process" for them is just a two-step plan for destroying Israel.

Quote:

4. If you controlled our foreign policy, would you alter our relationship with Israel? If so, how?

I'd move our embassy to Jerusalem, recognize Israel's annexation of Jerusalem, and end the charade of the road map, Oslo and all that stuff. We should not act like there are two warring parties equally at fault when such is not the case.

**Roguish Lawyer** · 02-13-2004, 19:19

Quote:

Originally posted by Valhal
I have found that most Americans are ignorant on this issue basing most of thier opinions on the biased news coverage. Most know nothing at all about the Palestinian side of the argument.

You think the media is biased in favor of Israel? You certainly have been reading your Chomsky.

**Roguish Lawyer** · 02-13-2004, 19:21

Quote:

Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
I think Israel is a friend to the US, one of a very few. Most of the time.

Important qualification?

NousDefionsDoc · 02-13-2004, 19:26

Quote:

Originally posted by Roguish Lawyer
Important qualification?

No, not really. Any country that doesn't put its own best interests in front is foolish. The US, I think, often makes the mistake of thinking Israel should always do exactly what we think it should. Israel's best interests are not necessarily the US' in every case.

However, Israel needs to understand that reliance on the US power and utlizing the powerful lobby they have in the US brings responsibility along with it.

Just like the Latino countries will have to learn the same thing as they grow in power through their US voters.

pulque · 02-13-2004, 19:30

Quote:

Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
Actually, the crip thing is Reaper's.

James, if you're Jewish you should really learn to spell Israel.

LOL.

oops, i'm scared of NDD too.

I have opinions about Israel because I have relatives who live there and a whole bunch of family who are outraged with my questioning of U.S. support of Israel. I used to feel more supportive about Israel until I started looking into history, especially the sabra and shatila massacres. Even though I am critical, I think that the surrounding arab states could/should have done more to absorb the palestinians.

The best thing I have read was a piece of graphic journalism called Palestine by Joe Sacco.

Surgicalcric · 02-13-2004, 19:36

NDD:

You know, my dad used to tell me the same thing about spelling, but he also thumped my skull because of it. lol

I thought you were the one who edited my title. Oh well, wrong again.
____________________

Good points all of them.

IMHO Europe would do the same thing they are doing with our war on terrorism if Israel was to defend itself the way I wish they would.

NousDefionsDoc · 02-13-2004, 19:39

I did the title, but the name is Reaper's.

I agree with you about Europe, but they would probably become actively engaged against Israel in at least some cases. There seems to be a real problem in some parts of the world with anti-Semitism. I don't really understand why, but the hatred runs very deep and its not all about kicking the Arabs out.

CPTAUSRET · 02-13-2004, 19:47

I too side with Israel, I also believe that if we are bankrolling them they need to listen to the US.

As an aside, does anyone remember the name of our intelligence gathering ship which was hosed by the Israeli Air Force, a few years ago?

Terry

NousDefionsDoc · 02-13-2004, 19:50

The USS Liberty?

Surgicalcric · 02-13-2004, 19:52

Quote:

Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
I did the title, but the name is Reaper's.

I agree with you about Europe, but they would probably become actively engaged against Israel in at least some cases. There seems to be a real problem in some parts of the world with anti-Semitism. I don't really understand why, but the hatred runs very deep and its not all about kicking the Arabs out.

Got it.

Anti-Semitism...you are telling me. It is not just in Europe. There was alot of it here in SC when I was growing up. I am suprised I made it out of highschool alive. For a while it seemed like my father was having parent-teacher conferences every week. I even had a HS Principal tell my dad I was to blame because I wore a Star of David on my necklace. Did I stop? NO. Do I still wear one? YES.