USS John McCain collision

[Penn]

If the hacking proves true, this is a clear act of war.

http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2017/08/...collision.html

[Sdiver]

Originally Posted by Box

"Initial reports indicate the warship sustained damage to its port side aft."


...so, McCain had some problems on 'the left'

BACK and to the Left ....
BACK and to the Left ....
BACK and to the Left ....

[Old Dog New Trick]

While certainly not impossible, I find it difficult to believe a foreign power capable of hacking a modern warships navigation and surface radar systems making ghost ships out of 500' long merchant ships.

How do you explain hacking human error?

Maybe not the last words spoken but the "Night Watch Crewmen" on the Titanic said "ICEBERG" right before impact, and long after the Captain had said full steam ahead...flank speed - let's break the record between Queenstown and New York. Goodnight!

These are not coincidences re: Fitzgerald, McCain, and others...these are training and leadership deficiencies at levels not seen since the late seventies and early eighties. Same blips happened during and after Clinton and again are happening during and after Obama. Coincidence? No.

[bblhead672]

Having experienced being on a submarine that collided with another submarine that was on the surface I'll stick with seamanship fundamentals and discipline are taking a backseat to diversity, sensitivity and social experimentation in the Navy.

My experience with two ships colliding was due to the inability of a junior officer, recently qualified Office of the Deck, mistaking running lights of the other sub as moving away from rather than directly at our sub.

Both subs returned to port with minor damage and no injuries. Except to careers.

[cbtengr]

GI beans and GI gravy Gee I'm glad I did not join the Navy. Not to over simplify this but the oceans are f***in huge no ship should ever even get close to hitting another ship.

[abc_123]

Could it be a function of smaller crew sizes due to technology so instead of 2-3 tired people potentially noticing something that is sliding down the slope of bad there may be only 1...who doesn't notice.

Is there greater reliance on tech to point out potential problems so that that 1 guy isn't as alert and looking for problems or cross-checking the data from the technology vs common sense, intuition or observed reality?

I'm not a ship driver and I don't know anything about the Navy, save after watching all those WWII Submarine and "Battle of the Atlantic" news reels and movies that I wanted nothing to do with it.

But I do wonder what the root cause of all these incidents is...

[Old Dog New Trick]

Don't these destroyers have ~300 crew members?

Doing some reading just now about these Arleigh Burke class guided missile destroyers is they are built with a very low surface radar signature. I wonder if because the navy is (actually) running "ghost ships" the radar on merchant ships are not seeing the warships in their path?

Being invisible cuts both ways!

[Scimitar]

Originally Posted by cbtengr

GI beans and GI gravy Gee I'm glad I did not join the Navy. Not to over simplify this but the oceans are f***in huge no ship should ever even get close to hitting another ship.

In their defense, were the incidents happen are shipping chock points, and are crowded as F**K.

This pic is a little over stated, but you get the point.

S

[LarryW]

Originally Posted by cbtengr

GI beans and GI gravy Gee I'm glad I did not join the Navy. Not to over simplify this but the oceans are f***in huge no ship should ever even get close to hitting another ship.

Please check out this video on the shipping and issues which affect all ships transiting the Straits of Singapore and the Straits of Malacca. It's illuminating. If you've never been there then ...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvJc8cLzQo4

[LarryW]

Spoofing of electronic navigation signals has been an EW science for a long time, but targeting a specific ship (especially a USN vessel) is almost impossible. However, spoofing a merchant ship may be easier. If you view the video above you'll notice all communications needs to go thru the VTIS controllers. This part of the world is extraordinary re: traffic.

IMHO, I believe we've raised a culture (all services) which rely too much on technology. Soldiers and Marines used to learn to rely on their compass and how to read a map. Too many of those skills are now based on manipulating their hand-held GPS. One example.

I suspect that right now some place in the world there are soldiers, sailors, Marines, airmen who are forsaking their duty and are fiddling with their Smart Phones. Anyone wanna bet against it?

[LarryW]

Originally Posted by Old Dog New Trick

Don't these destroyers have ~300 crew members?

Doing some reading just now about these Arleigh Burke class guided missile destroyers is they are built with a very low surface radar signature. I wonder if because the navy is (actually) running "ghost ships" the radar on merchant ships are not seeing the warships in their path?

Being invisible cuts both ways!

Not a bad perspective, sir, but Arliegh Burke's are steel and don't have that sort of radar cross section mitigation. The new Zumwalt DDG is another matter.

[tonyz]

Originally Posted by Scimitar

In their defense, were the incidents happen are shipping chock points, and are crowded as F**K.

This pic is a little over stated, but you get the point.

S

True. But IMHO all the more reason for redundancy and adding some good old fashioned lookouts (small craft patrols even) at these choke points...choke points provide opportunity for more than just accidents.

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by Penn

If the hacking proves true, this is a clear act of war.

http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2017/08/...collision.html

You can hack my car, but I still have the ability to turn it off, apply the brakes, turn the steering wheel etc.

The commander of that ship (and a few others) needs to walk the plank........... This is ludicrous.

[cbtengr]

Originally Posted by Scimitar

In their defense, were the incidents happen are shipping chock points, and are crowded as F**K.

This pic is a little over stated, but you get the point.

S

Not trying to pick on the Navy but if it's so hectic out there then one would expect the level of vigilance to be that much higher. There is just no excuse for this. They are recovering bodies now I am sure those sailors did not go to bed thinking that their lives were in eminent danger from a collision.

[PSM]

Originally Posted by Old Dog New Trick

Being invisible cuts both ways!

Not when one of the two involved also has passive sonar/computer with a sea-craft identification database.

Pat