Range Lessons Learned Last Week - Page 2

bberkley · 01-15-2005, 17:21

Terry,

I agree with you. There is a coolness factor to Oakleys, and they are spendy. My Rx lenses were $200. WileyX makes some good glasses, but I haven't tried them. I've always had good support from Oakley, even if its been my fault that I broke something.

I have another reason for liking the company, and thats what they did for Lance Armstrong when he was diagnosed with cancer. His French team dropped him (and there went his health insurance). Oakley stepped up and mandated to their carrier that they cover him (he is one of their sponsored athletes).

01-15-2005, 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by QRQ 30

Oakleys are cool

and I also like them. What you like about the Oakleys is the styling and not the safety which can be purchased otherwise. Besides the "cool" styling the lenses are optically correct. If you want a pair of Rx Oakleys, including all three lenses, you will pay a pretty $$$$ for them. If it is worth it to you by all means get them, otherwise realise there are more inexpensive glasses available. If I had the money I'd buy an M3 BMW.

Thanks!

Actually, I was thinking primarily of the lenses, and the styling as a plus. However, I won't hijack this thread and it's not time already to get a pair.

Guy · 01-15-2005, 18:29

The glasses that are well worth the money if you need Rx lenses, are the ones that automatically, lighten or go dark.

I was sick and tired of changing glasses every time, I had to go from indoors to outdoors and back.

Tuukka · 01-16-2005, 09:07

Had a team mate catch a 7.62x39 projectile in the middle of his forehead. Came back from a Pepper Popper which had a cratered surface from previous use.

No other damage than a small lump and small headache.

**Team Sergeant** · 01-16-2005, 10:13

Worst I've heard of was while I was stationed on Okinawa. An ODA was instructing some Navy support types and were shooting steel with 9mm. The brass jacket came back and hit this female in the neck, right next to the carotid artery. The SF medic (my team mate) could not immediately locate the shard and took her to the hospital. After an x-ray they could see the shard, right where the medic thought it might be, sitting dangerously close to the carotid artery. The Navy female now sports a one inch scar next to her carotid artery.

Basenshukai, I've been hit with splatter and 230gr ricochets more times than I can count! You have not lived till you go into a 360 tire house shooting targets everywhere and have a 230 gr round hit a “Steel belted radial” and bounce back like someone shot it out of a “Wrist Rocket” back at you!
Glad to hear your lesson learned was a “low cost” lesson!

TS

Basenshukai · 01-16-2005, 11:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

Worst I've heard of was while I was stationed on Okinawa. An ODA was instructing some Navy support types and were shooting steel with 9mm. The brass jacket came back and hit this female in the neck, right next to the carotid artery.

The same exact story was told to me about three days ago by a member of the other DA team in our company. Except, their team medic was able to pull out the brass jacket in the team room and stitched him up. It happened when his team leader was shooting steel some 35 m away in the SFAUC range. I believe that there was a safety message concerning shooting steel plates, but I think it had to do with 5.56 and not 9mm.

TRUST · 01-16-2005, 21:49

Basenshukai,
Incredible story; glad to hear you are ok! Thanks for sharing.

TRUST

GackMan · 01-18-2005, 23:54

what kind of target stands do you use for steel?

Do you angle the steel downward to reduce ricochets and spray?

G · 01-24-2005, 19:29

Ok.....After reading all of this, the days of getting my guys to shoot steel are done. (Almost) no training value that steel can give that shooting at balloons can't.

Take Care...

G

NousDefionsDoc · 01-24-2005, 19:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by G

Ok.....After reading all of this, the days of getting my guys to shoot steel are done. (Almost) no training value that steel can give that shooting at balloons can't.

Take Care...

G

I disagree, but they're your guys.

G · 01-24-2005, 20:10

NDD,

Feel free to share your thoughts. Always happy to learn.

I had been using balloons where steel was not an option; but we have recently gone to a new range where there is a lot of steel to work with. Had the guys working on steel plates at our last session, but now I'm not sure it's worth the risk - I can run the same exercises using balloons in most cases without the safety headaches.

G

**Ambush Master** · 01-24-2005, 20:37

Not sure where NDD is headed, but for me a Balloon vs Steel = a near miss on a balloon is a hit and only a SOLID hit on steel puts it down. Hell, a bullet in the dirt around a balloon is a hit !!!

The thing here I think is "Fixed" vs "Reactive" targets. Fixed tend to talk back !!

GackMan · 01-24-2005, 20:40

G -

how much training time do you spend blowing and placing balloons versus shooting? Do you pre fill them and have bags of them on hand?

I shoot steel all the time; it is a great feed back tool for training and you can run near constant relays of shooters w/ no cease fires or time running down to look at targets. Juts paint them a couple times per day. More time training and shooting.

the targets we use hook into the stand to angle them downward for safety.

Check this article out: http://www.policeone.com/police-prod...rticles/67903/ it is a re-print from the FBI Training Bulletin.

G · 01-24-2005, 20:55

Ambush Master - You're right about a near miss - but it's easy to see the difference between a solid hit and a near miss. I'm not saying that it's a perfect solution, but I think it's a good one.

Gackman - will check the link; thanks mate. Time spent is minimal; we have a compressor (with air hose) that we use for cleaning, works well for blowing balloons up too! But nowhere near as fast as steel - there defintely is some downtime.

G

Smokin Joe · 01-25-2005, 03:40

Have you any of you every used a can of tomato juice placed inside of a silhouette then put t-shirt over the slihouette to conceal the tomato juice. It takes awhile to setup sure, but try it on unsuspecting trainees and see who flinches and who works through the blood effect.

I have seen this stop a SWAT team butt cold in there tracks on a simulated vehicle assualt. There excuse was "we weren't expecting to see blood all over the inside of the car after the Sniper shot the target". Same thing with rookies they can shoot paper all day long but you put a little realism to the shooting and some will freeze.

Sorry for the hijack.......Glad you are okay Basenshukai