Gunfight Article and Stick

[CPTAUSRET]

Originally Posted by casey

FS - You are assuming that someone who is "trained" will be more apt to win in a gunfight because of "technical skill" and a government position? Big letters on the back of your jacket won't help you do the deed. Its the individual that wins gunfights not the agency of assignment.

In any large metropolitan setting, odds are you are NOT going to pick the setting, or circumstances of your shooting. Shit just happens. However, if you have trained yourself (in all types inclement weather, off hand, immediate action, low light conditions) - and are not just one of the masses going thru the mandatory range day, you are halfway there.

The skill to pull a trigger and the will to pull a trigger are two different things. Give me the quiet, unassuming person who breaks a rib practicing combat drop/fire in the rain on his own, than the guy who can cut a card at 15ft on a warm sunny day.

From my experience, it will be your situational awareness, the will to send them on target, + YOUR training that will get you home or at least seal up your side of the story - forever.

Good post, right on!

Terry

[Razor]

Originally Posted by CPTAUSRET

Good post, right on!

Terry

Quoth the car-stabber.

[CPTAUSRET]

Originally Posted by Razor

Quoth the car-stabber.

G:

Hey, my brother!

Good memory, you don't forget anything, do you? I ruined a good knife (Gerber Mk 2) on that car.

Stay safe, Amigo.

Terry

[Razor]

If only you'd lost the knife by sticking it in a moron, the loss would seem less painful.

[CPTAUSRET]

Originally Posted by Razor

If only you'd lost the knife by sticking it in a moron, the loss would seem less painful.

That's, so true, absolutely true!

[Roguish Lawyer]

Originally Posted by casey

Either the switch will go on, or you neighbors will be interviewed about what a great girl you were despite rumors of kitchen area domestic disturbances

Or there will be dead XYs in briefs on the kitchen floor while FS is led off to spend her years with some other "badass" XXs . . .

[Mac]

Great post, I thought I might have something to contribute to this. In reference to the Police training issues, Ive been a firearms instructor for our Dept (Las Vegas Metro PD) for 4 years and a Defensive Tactics instructor for 12 years. When we have the academy at the range, were limited to what averages out to be about a week (out of 19 weeks) to get them through firearms/tactics instruction....total. Thats with at least half who have never touched a firearm in their lives. Unfortunately, we cant get half of them to remember what the front sight is, let alone make them gunfighters. That time seems to be constantly cut back, due to "important" classes that must be given in their limited academy time, such as cultural awarness and sensitivity training (dont get me started). When you try to instill a warrior mindset in them, teach them to take the fight to the threat, you occasionally get reminded by range or academy staff that we only teach them to use the minimal amount of force neccessary. Its difficult to teach to them (most who have never even been in a fight, let alone a deadly force situation) to attack, to keep driving on, even if your wounded, and keep fighting until the threat has been defeated and you have won. Especially when they get mixed signals that are heavy on deescalation (which is fine before the fight starts, but once its on, that doesnt help as they second guess themselves). Its that line they dont understand and that is difficult to teach in that period of time. Fortunately, most of the instuctors have been in at least one shooting, so we try to use that as a training tool to stress the gravity to them and to continue their training, through later in-service training and on their own, after they graduate. Its weak and it sucks, but its the reality. On the plus side, our dept. has gotten better on that end. We have training now in Active Shooter sits., simunitions, tactical mindset, survivor mentality, CQB (both empty hand and firearms)that we never had before..but its still not enough. It still comes down to the individual getting off his ass, going to the range on his own time, dry fire at home, paying from his own pocket for outside training (Frontsite, Gunsite, etc.), practicing your empty hand/impact weapons/chemical, realizing that Golds Gym, not Winchells, is better for you in the long run when youre rolling around in the gutter with some shermed-out asshole. Which comes back to you have to have the mindset to not just survive, but to win. Another problem is too much reliance on gadgets, rather that spending that money on realistic, constant training. Spiffy gear is great, but if you cant use it effectively, then you are a liability with alot of expensive crap that you dont know how/when to use. Id rather have a warrior watching my back with a .38 and a wood stick than Mr. Mitty with a belt full of Bat-gadgets. Anyway, I just realized Ive taken up alot of space here. Sorry for rambling, but I get pretty worked up about these problems. Ill go back to lurking now.

[Trip_Wire (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Mac

Great post, I thought I might have something to contribute to this. In reference to the Police training issues, Ive been a firearms instructor for our Dept (Las Vegas Metro PD) for 4 years and a Defensive Tactics instructor for 12 years. When we have the academy at the range, were limited to what averages out to be about a week (out of 19 weeks) to get them through firearms/tactics instruction....total. Thats with at least half who have never touched a firearm in their lives. Unfortunately, we cant get half of them to remember what the front sight is, let alone make them gunfighters. That time seems to be constantly cut back, due to "important" classes that must be given in their limited academy time, such as cultural awarness and sensitivity training (dont get me started). When you try to instill a warrior mindset in them, teach them to take the fight to the threat, you occasionally get reminded by range or academy staff that we only teach them to use the minimal amount of force neccessary. Its difficult to teach to them (most who have never even been in a fight, let alone a deadly force situation) to attack, to keep driving on, even if your wounded, and keep fighting until the threat has been defeated and you have won. Especially when they get mixed signals that are heavy on deescalation (which is fine before the fight starts, but once its on, that doesnt help as they second guess themselves). Its that line they dont understand and that is difficult to teach in that period of time. Fortunately, most of the instuctors have been in at least one shooting, so we try to use that as a training tool to stress the gravity to them and to continue their training, through later in-service training and on their own, after they graduate. Its weak and it sucks, but its the reality. On the plus side, our dept. has gotten better on that end. We have training now in Active Shooter sits., simunitions, tactical mindset, survivor mentality, CQB (both empty hand and firearms)that we never had before..but its still not enough. It still comes down to the individual getting off his ass, going to the range on his own time, dry fire at home, paying from his own pocket for outside training (Frontsite, Gunsite, etc.), practicing your empty hand/impact weapons/chemical, realizing that Golds Gym, not Winchells, is better for you in the long run when youre rolling around in the gutter with some shermed-out asshole. Which comes back to you have to have the mindset to not just survive, but to win. Another problem is too much reliance on gadgets, rather that spending that money on realistic, constant training. Spiffy gear is great, but if you cant use it effectively, then you are a liability with alot of expensive crap that you dont know how/when to use. Id rather have a warrior watching my back with a .38 and a wood stick than Mr. Mitty with a belt full of Bat-gadgets. Anyway, I just realized Ive taken up alot of space here. Sorry for rambling, but I get pretty worked up about these problems. Ill go back to lurking now.

Hey! Great post Mac! I too have experienced just what you are talking about here. It'd a pretty common trend in LE. A department that can get beyond the 6 month manditory simple qualification course is doing good.

It as you say, in the end it boils down to the individual and in some cases the individual incharge of a special unit to see that one becomes proficient.

Just a hint, paragraphs would make your post easier to read.

[Mac]

Tripwire,
Thanks. Glad I could contribute. Ref the gramatical error, no excuse...wont happen again.

[frostfire]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Are you lazy, or just not spelling it right?

TR

http://professionalsoldiers.com/foru...Point+Shooting

didn't look through 2nd search results page,
assumed they're in decreasing relevance order,
I apologize, Sir
lesson learnt

[NousDefionsDoc]

Do a search - we've discussed it.

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by frostfire

don't want to start a new thread and search button gave nichts,
so....any take on point shooting technique? eg. http://www.pointshooting.com

I got 62 hits on a search here, including one with "Point Shooting" as the title.

Are you lazy, or just not spelling it right?

TR