Just released from the BATFE from the AG

[Old Dog New Trick]

Originally Posted by tonyz

...control healthcare, control education, control the media...control the message, control the language, "control" the borders, "control" the IRS, control the warrior class...control control control...how many fingers...?

Yer gonna need more fingers...you forgot to add: control the land, the water, the minerals under the ground, the use of fossil fuels, the air, the airspace and...well, whether you can end your life before your last breath.

I've always said that Americans think they are free but they (we) are the most controlled and regulated people in the world. And we vote for that shit!

[SF-TX]

Cloward-Piven strategy in action.

DC Media Cover-Up: Actually, Obama and Hillary Have Said They Want to Confiscate Guns

Just as they did when we were assured we could keep our health insurance, the hopelessly corrupt, rotted-out DC Media and Barack Obama are once again coordinating to pull the wool over the eyes of the American people, to lull us into a false sense of security before the boom falls. And make no mistake, the sinister plan is to drop the boom, maybe not on Obama’s watch, but the seeds have been planted: These people plan to flood the country with illegals, refugees, and early-release prisoners, and then disarm us.

Chaos reigns. The same federal government that caused the problem poses as savior, and now that same federal government is stronger and more intrusive than ever before. The Left makes no secret of this plan. It’s called the Cloward-Piven Strategy of Orchestrated Crisis.

The DC media won’t talk about this because they are all in on it. It’s no secret either that if you boil the DC media down to its dark essence that what you will find is an institution dedicated to ennobling and empowering the federal government. Ask yourself… When was the last time the DC media called for a less intrusive government, for more local control, for state solution as opposed to one-size-fits-all federal solutions?

They never do...

Continue reading...

[tonyz]

Originally Posted by Old Dog New Trick

Yer gonna need more fingers...you forgot to add: control the land, the water, the minerals under the ground, the use of fossil fuels, the air, the airspace and...well, whether you can end your life before your last breath.

I've always said that Americans think they are free but they (we) are the most controlled and regulated people in the world. And we vote for that shit!

Lol, but don't you dare suggest that a valid form of ID be required in order to cast that vote !

[SF-TX]

Originally Posted by FlagDayNCO

It may not appear as much to anyone that does not have a diagnosis, or believe they may never have one, but who really sets the standard? The way it reads and the way many are pointing it out is like this: YOU can have your rights limited with the simple "notification" to a Federal agency.

Remember those questions being raised a few years ago by some health care professionals about firearms ownership in your household? Don't want to answer or tell the health care professional you have a right to not answer, then they simply mark you off as unwilling to answer or to comply with a "reasonable" question. You are now on a path to being unreasonable and maybe unstable.

Do not agree with various changes in the social structure of America today? You may be a racist, you may be homophobic, you may be... get the picture? You are not "normal" in the Progressive / Liberal / Socialist way, and therefore unreasonable...

Down this rabbit hole...

Are Climate Skeptics Too ‘Mentally Ill’ to Buy Guns Under Obama’s New Rules?

[SF-TX]

A different opinion on the intent of the executive action...

Dr. AWR Hawkins: Obama’s ‘Insidious’ Gun Move Meant To ‘Scare Law Abiding Citizens’

While discussing the details of Obama’s gun grab in death [sic], says Hawkins, in part:

"(T)he enforcement will be psychological because it is going to scare grandma’s and grandpa’s to death. It is going to scare law abiding citizens to death that they might sell a 38 Special revolver and if they do sell it without a background check, that they might be penalized for being in the business to sell guns without being licensed to sell guns. So, it’ll accomplish what it accomplishes with a de facto reach, rather than a du jour reach."

Link

[PSM]

One thing I've always been confused about (well, just the last 20 years or so), if there is no registration of weapons required, where is the paper trail that the government can follow to prove you sold a gun at all, let alone even owned it?

I bought my Mini-14 in CA in '82. I walked in, slapped down $289, and walked out 10 or 15 minutes later with the rifle. The only paperwork involved, that I'm aware of, was my receipt and their copy. And B&B Guns had been out of business for a decade or more.

Pat

[Dean Jarvis]

Originally Posted by PSM

One thing I've always been confused about (well, just the last 20 years or so), if there is no registration of weapons required, where is the paper trail that the government can follow to prove you sold a gun at all, let alone even owned it?

I bought my Mini-14 in CA in '82. I walked in, slapped down $289, and walked out 10 or 15 minutes later with the rifle. The only paperwork involved, that I'm aware of, was my receipt and their copy. And B&B Guns had been out of business for a decade or more.

Pat

The second day I was back from Vietnam I purchased a snub nose .38 to pack around. Long story short, the gun was taken in a robbery. About a year later the police called me and said they had my gun and to come pick it up. It had been used in a robbery. So they do have information on you and they know who the gun belongs to.

The paper trail has got to be part of the background check information you would have to do when selling your personal firearm. You would be required to keep that on file for ATF inspection when they come to your home.

[fng13]

Originally Posted by PSM

One thing I've always been confused about (well, just the last 20 years or so), if there is no registration of weapons required, where is the paper trail that the government can follow to prove you sold a gun at all, let alone even owned it?

I bought my Mini-14 in CA in '82. I walked in, slapped down $289, and walked out 10 or 15 minutes later with the rifle. The only paperwork involved, that I'm aware of, was my receipt and their copy. And B&B Guns had been out of business for a decade or more.

Pat

I'm not sure of the official date that form 4473 became mandatory, but it was an offshoot of the 68GCA. It has been mandatory to fill out form 4473 when purchasing a firearm through a FFL for some time. The dealer in turn are required to keep that form for 20 years. The BATFE has access to these forms during inspections at FFLs. If they go out of business I believe they are required to turn their book of business over to BATFE.

So while the government does not have a federal database per se, if they have access to any FFL holder in the country (they do), a de facto registration exists.

If they have a particular serial number and go to the manufacturer, who points them to the distributor, then to the local gun store, where the firearm was originally sold. They can then look at form. The dealer may refuse to give up the info without a warrant, but that would not be in their best interest in the eyes of BATFE.

With that information they go to the original purchaser, who tells them who they sold it to so on and so forth.

Some states require transfers even from owner to owner to be handled through an FFL. Pennsylvania, for example, requires all handguns to be transferred through an ffl regardless if it's a private sale or not. So if they find your 4473 for the purchase of a Glock and they knock on your door and you tell them you sold it, you better be able to name the shop where you did the transfer.

That may vary state to state. However, I believe it is Federal law that out of state purchases of a handgun must be shipped to an in-state FFL for the new owner to take possession, even if purchased from a private seller.

This would then cause eventually all guns that did not have an original form 4473 to get one as these guns are sold off as people die, move on etc.

For someone they suspect having ownership of a certain firearm, data-mining would be the current tactic I'd guess. Looking at social media, for pictures of a certain firearms, web history, purchases (ammunition matching the firearm) etc.

There are certainly states where it would be easier to keep sales and transfers off the books from private party to private party, but these would all have to be older guns. Eventually paperwork will exist on all guns in private possession or someone down the line intentionally or unintentionally broke the law.

[tonyz]

Given Jarret's recent comments regarding Gun EO's I thought a little background refresher on Jarrett (for the new folks) might be appropriate.

Valerie Jarrett: Obama ‘Clearly Within His Authority’ on Gun Executive Action
http://www.breitbart.com/video/2016/...cutive-action/

Complete article at link below.

THE COMMUNIST FAMILY TREE OF VALERIE JARRETT
A disturbing reminder of who our President chose to serve as his co-president -- and why.
June 25, 2015
Front Page

Barack Obama's closest and most influential adviser, Valerie Jarrett, has never been an enigma. She was, after all, the person most responsible for bringing the revolutionary communist Van Jones into the Administration six years ago, so her bona fides as a radical extremist have long been obvious to anyone who wasn't afraid to notice. But a newly released report from Judicial Watch, which examines key FBI documents related to Jarrett's many family ties to hardcore Communists, brings bold color to what previously were gray areas. The effect is nothing short of breathtaking, when we consider that the twice-elected President of our nation chose this woman—and no one else—to serve, essentially, as his co-president.

Valerie Jarrett's late father—a physician named James Bowman—had a lengthy FBI fileshowing that he was a Communist who often collaborated with other Communists based principally in Chicago. In 1950, for instance, Bowman communicated with a paid Soviet agent named Alfred Stern, who later fled the U.S. to Prague when he was indicted on espionage charges that were ultimately confirmed beyond doubt—specifically, he had conspired to transmit military and political information to the Soviet Union. Bowman was also a member of the Association of Internes and Medical Students, a group that, according to his FBI file, engaged in un-American activities and “has long been a faithful follower of the Communist Party line.”

<snip>

http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/2591...t-john-perazzo

[Sdiver]

Originally Posted by tonyz

Given Jarret's recent comments regarding Gun EO's I thought a little background refresher on Jarrett (for the new folks) might be appropriate.

Ummm ... THAT'S President Jarrett to you, and everyone else.

[PSM]

Originally Posted by Dean Jarvis

The second day I was back from Vietnam I purchased a snub nose .38 to pack around. Long story short, the gun was taken in a robbery. About a year later the police called me and said they had my gun and to come pick it up. It had been used in a robbery. So they do have information on you and they know who the gun belongs to.

Did you report it stolen?

Originally Posted by Dean Jarvis

The paper trail has got to be part of the background check information you would have to do when selling your personal firearm. You would be required to keep that on file for ATF inspection when they come to your home.

From the ATF FAQs Page:

Is an ATF Form 4473 required when an unlicensed person sells or disposes a firearm?

No. The ATF Form 4473 is required only for sales or dispositions by a licensed manufacturer, importer, or dealer.

[18 U.S.C. 923(g); 27 CFR 478.124]

Q&A Category: ATF Form 4473

Last Reviewed September 4, 2015

https://www.atf.gov/qa-category/atf-form-4473

Originally Posted by fng13

I'm not sure of the official date that form 4473 became mandatory, but it was an offshoot of the 68GCA.

That was '68. Was a BG check required for long guns? That's all I ever owned until I bought the USP six or seven years ago and did have to fill out the 4473.

Thanks.

Pat

[fng13]

Originally Posted by PSM

That was '68. Was a BG check required for long guns? That's all I ever owned until I bought the USP six or seven years ago and did have to fill out the 4473.

Thanks.

Pat

No background check existed then. As far as I know NICS didn't come about until the Brady Act in 1993 but wasn't online until ~97-98.

However, I believe you've had to fill out the 4473 or equivelent since the passing of 68GCA. So if you were buying from a dealer you had to fill out the form. Person to Person sales would have depended on state law at the time, whether you had to use a ffl to transfer or not, I'm guessing not.

[Dusty]

We'll just get President Trump to slice through a lot of these Obamian Knots.
Too bad we don't have a crew in DC with clangers brassy enough to defund these undertakings.

[Paslode]

Originally Posted by SF-TX

These people plan to flood the country with illegals, refugees, and early-release prisoners, and then disarm us.

With support from the legitimate voting block is in the decline, this is a wonderful vehicle to subvert the current system and maintain status quo for those in power.

[craigepo]

The ATF posted a diagram on their Facebook page regarding the rulemaking process. Before they take it down, it is worth taking a look at the comments thereto. It is difficult to treat citizens as idiots with the easy availability of information today. Some of the comments are pretty damned funny.

https://www.facebook.com/HQATF/