Recommendatons/Input on 308 NATO (7.62) Rifles

[Papa Zero Three]

Originally Posted by Spiffav8

Anyone own, or have experience with a Springfield M1A National Match or M21? Wondering how that would stack up against some of the others discussed here.

Really appreciate the input guys. Please keep the info coming!!

IMO, it's not in the same league as what has been mentioned. They have their own following and people who shoot them but you can end up pouring a lot of money into it just to get it to shoot decently when many of the mentioned weapons fire better right out of the box.

[Peregrino]

Originally Posted by Spiffav8

Anyone own, or have experience with a Springfield M1A National Match or M21? Wondering how that would stack up against some of the others discussed here.

Really appreciate the input guys. Please keep the info coming!!

The search button is your friend. That dead horse has already been flogged into hamburger.

[TRU]

Originally Posted by Spiffav8

Anyone own, or have experience with a Springfield M1A National Match or M21? Wondering how that would stack up against some of the others discussed here.

Really appreciate the input guys. Please keep the info coming!!

As posted above, it's been talked about quite a bit, but in my opinion it's kind of outdated. I love the platform, but when you start putting it in an EBR or other type of stock, you're talking some serious cash, serious weight, and (in my experience) a serious PITA. They're great guns, just not quite on par with what you are currently looking at. For precision 762 guns, I personally would recommend a 700P or 700PSS or build a 700 and put it in an AI, McMillan, HS, etc. stock.

The LaRue is a good gun, but it's $$. I don't like the SR25, and don't have trigger time on the others. I do, however, have trigger time on a CMMG, Mega Arms MA-Ten, and Black Rain matched upper/lower. All were custom guns, but I was pleased with all three.

[longrange1947]

Have quite a bit of time on the M21/M1A in both competition and re world. You are comparing a Model A to modern sports car. They have problems holding zero and placing them in fancy stocks does not solve that basic problem. For a battle rifle, the M14 was great, there were better, for an accuracy weapon, not so much.

Peregino, thought I would add a bit more hamburger to the pile.

[hueygunner]

Originally Posted by koz

You might take a look at the CMMG 308

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=374490952

http://www.cmmginc.com/product_p/38aea9a.htm

Has the Geissele trigger, key mod rail, MB, and SS barrel. For $1800 it's not a bad price.

I have the CMMG 308 with an 18" SS barrel and I love it. I shoot 1/4" groups at 100 yards with my hand loads and 1/2" groups with Federal GMM, and the only mods I have done are a two-stage match trigger and a nice 10x scope.

Originally Posted by Spiffav8

Anyone own, or have experience with a Springfield M1A National Match or M21? Wondering how that would stack up against some of the others discussed here.

Really appreciate the input guys. Please keep the info coming!!

I had an LRB M14SA (a non-Springfield M1A), glass bedded, gas tuned, match trigger, and a whole host of other mods to get it into match shooting shape, and I had to have at least $2500 in that gun.

The 308 ARs are just inherently accurate, so you can start shooting well right out of the box. I concur that a replacement trigger is a MUST if you get the DPMS - coupled with a nice optic, you'll be in business. You can then upgrade other things down the road.

[frostfire]

Originally Posted by Spiffav8

Gentlemen,

I find myself wanting to do some precision and longer distance shooting. I have been doing a lot of reading on the various platforms out there for this and honestly don't know which way to go. I have a short list and was hoping that you could offer some feedback/input as I know many of you may have used some of rifles that are I am considering. My motto is "buy once, cry once" so I don't mind spending a bit to get the right one. There are limits to that though. Here's my short list....and I am not intending for this to be a "VS" type thread. Just likes, dislikes, pluses and minuses and things to look out for.

Respectfully,

SpiffAV8

Knights Armament SR25 ECC

LMT LM308MWSF

LaRue PredatOBR

SIG SAUER SIG716

FWIW, often overlooked in the pursuit for precision shooting using AR platform is the time and dedication required to drive a gas gun to its max potential. I was right where you are at few years back, and have spent more $$$ and time to just barely make the OBR a part of the body and extension of the will, compared to if I had started with a solid bolt platform like the TRG. Furthermore, that state of proficiency is so very perishable...I mean from stacking 10 rds < 1MOA < 1min to having a "precision" scatter gun
So make sure you count that cost and have no regret.

Having said that,I concur with much that had been said:
- SIG 716 can use trigger replacement. Other than that, surprisingly capable to get sub-MOA with FGMM and it's more competitive price-wise than LWRC, POF, and other piston platform
- No experience with LMT
- No experience with GAP10. Now that George includes the adjustable gas block, it's more and more attractive than OBR though. Also keep in mind Larue does not do mil discount anymore...
- OBR is dead solid sub-MOA gasser. You can cancel the order right on shipping day, because another buyer would line up for it. I'm still irritated I shot the SR25 test rifle at 37 into smaller 1 hole 4-5 rds group than my OBR, though Right, Rick? I forgot what excuse we came up with. Perhaps something along the line of rifle/barrel break-in
- I defer SR25 to those who've used them day in-day out, and had to deal with QC consistency

[Spiffav8]

Guys I can't tell you how much I appreciate all the information. It's got me thinking and asking the right questions. Today I ran into a good friend that I haven't seen for awhile. The man knows his guns! So of course I started asking a ton of questions. He has offered to help me build one. We are going to put a together a parts list and I'll post it up here for and you all can let me know what you think.

Thanks guys!!

[Spiffav8]

Originally Posted by longrange1947

Have quite a bit of time on the M21/M1A in both competition and re world. You are comparing a Model A to modern sports car. They have problems holding zero and placing them in fancy stocks does not solve that basic problem. For a battle rifle, the M14 was great, there were better, for an accuracy weapon, not so much.

Peregino, thought I would add a bit more hamburger to the pile.

Kind of thought that might be the case, but figured it would be worth exploring as an option. Right now Springfield is offering FFL employees 1 rifle and 1 hand gun at 20% below dealer cost and that got me thinking M21/M1A. I'll pass on the rifle, but I think I'll get a 1911 TRP. A buddy has one and I really like it. I have their "Loaded" model and have shot them side by side. The TRP is just a bit nicer....and who couldn't use another 1911.

[Spiffav8]

Originally Posted by Brush Okie

For long range precision shooting I too suggest a bolt action rifle. There are also better rounds than 308 for long range shooting.

What EXACTLY do you want to do with the rifle? Punch paper or hunt?

What is your budget?

How far do you want to shoot?

Do you reload or use factory ammo.

I do want a quality bolt gun for my collection, but prefer semi auto at the moment. When it comes time for the bolt gun, I'll explore caliber.

I'd like to do both, Punch paper and Hunt.

Budget is around 5k max

Distance 800 to 1000

I currently use factory rounds and save my brass as I am planning on getting into reloading.

Thanks for the info man. Greatly appreciate it.

[Spiffav8]

Originally Posted by frostfire

FWIW, often overlooked in the pursuit for precision shooting using AR platform is the time and dedication required to drive a gas gun to its max potential. I was right where you are at few years back, and have spent more $$$ and time to just barely make the OBR a part of the body and extension of the will, compared to if I had started with a solid bolt platform like the TRG. Furthermore, that state of proficiency is so very perishable...I mean from stacking 10 rds < 1MOA < 1min to having a "precision" scatter gun
So make sure you count that cost and have no regret.

Having said that,I concur with much that had been said:
- SIG 716 can use trigger replacement. Other than that, surprisingly capable to get sub-MOA with FGMM and it's more competitive price-wise than LWRC, POF, and other piston platform
- No experience with LMT
- No experience with GAP10. Now that George includes the adjustable gas block, it's more and more attractive than OBR though. Also keep in mind Larue does not do mil discount anymore...
- OBR is dead solid sub-MOA gasser. You can cancel the order right on shipping day, because another buyer would line up for it. I'm still irritated I shot the SR25 test rifle at 37 into smaller 1 hole 4-5 rds group than my OBR, though Right, Rick? I forgot what excuse we came up with. Perhaps something along the line of rifle/barrel break-in
- I defer SR25 to those who've used them day in-day out, and had to deal with QC consistency

With you already having traveled this road...we may need to talk a bit more. I am going to look into building one with the help of a friend who knows his stuff. I'll post up the build sheet soon.

[Spiffav8]

Well....after some discussion, study and comparison....I bought a NEMO Tango 8. It has a nice list of parts and great reviews. It's price is comparable to others in it's class as well. It should be here in a day or two and I am looking forward to range time with it. A buddy has offered to lone me a very nice Scope, till I can get one of my own. Should be fun.

Thanks for all the help guys! I really appreciate it.